Hi Randy,
Sorry, I tried to *generalise* something when responding to you but that
does not help to ease my discomfort inside when reading your post.
Hi Thomas,
Thank you, your questions are beautiful
*Can I hold the ambiguity of not knowing?
What has a good effect for this client?
What has the client asked of me?
*
You remind me of *presence in here and now,*
Paul
from Hong Kong
2009/7/7 Thomas Bryson <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Dear David and others,
On the idea of children having a right to know about an abortion:
The phenomenological approach does not include rules about what is
correct. As a facilitator, some questions which I ask are:
Can I hold the ambiguity of not knowing?
What has a good effect for this client?
What has the client asked of me?
How can I serve the client's movement towards healing inner divisions?
The idea of a child's right is foreign to me. What are rights? According
to whom?
The question for me personally is, am I being present or unconscious?
When I am present, it is much more likely to have a good result,
whatever it is.
In my life the only child whom I started, ended his beginning in an
abortion (in my mind it was a boy). I found it appropriate to honor the
gift that the potential child had given to me in his total sacrifice.
The freedom that I gained from that 'yes' allowed me the luxury of
pursuing my own healing and the healing of many others. I grieved the
reality that he was my only chance at fatherhood. At age twenty it was
not a very conscious choice, but the system served me and many others
well in that termination of a budding life.
All love,
Thomas Bryson
David C Rupley, Jr., MD(H) wrote:
>
Ken,
I agree with what you have posted. I would add that an abortion is not
"by definition" excluding someone. It matters very much what the
parents do around the abortion. As has been said, the issue then
becomes what entanglements are there? I am uncertain that the children
"have a right to know" that they have a sibling. I have done a
constellation for a gentleman who knew (unusual for a person over 70?)
and did not think it was important. His constellation changed his view
on this.
Still, do children have a right to know? Sneh? Angwynn?
I look forward to additional thoughts on this.
David Rupley, Jr.
Tucson, AZ
See you in Mesa in 2010
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenn Day
Sent: Jul 6, 2009 9:15 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ConstellationTalk%40yahoogroups.com<ConstellationTalk%2540yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Some specifics on abortion related
constellation issues
Paul,
It seems you are confusing two different issues here.
1) In FC we do work to bring back what ever missing pieces of the
family soul that may be causing entanglements.
This does not mean that the client needs or is even allowed to know
everything that goes on with his parents or ancestors. It is none of
his/her business. The ancestors must be honored and their needs
respected. We can only do this work with their blessing and agreement.
In the same way, it is none of the child's business if the parent has
done something, like had an abortion. It MAY be important for them to
know that they have a sibling that is no longer with them. Telling
them that there was a miscarriage is a good way to achieve this.
2) In FC we do not work with "truth" as an absolute. We work with what
appears to move the constellation forward in a positive way. It may
appear within the field that "Mother has done something bad," or
"Father took another woman." This sort of thing shows up sometimes. It
does not need to mean that this is what happened in ordinary life. It
is enough if this "realization" allows for movement and relief in the
field.
We are not moral monitors. It is up to the field and the ancestors to
determine if someone can do effective FC work.
namaste,
Kenn Day
www.soulsolutionshome.com
On Jul 6, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Paul Chung wrote:
Hi Randy,<mailto:randy%40randygoldberg.org ;<randy%2540randygoldberg.org>>>
Let's focus on two points that I take it as fundamental principles
in FC:
1) In FC, we work primirary to bring back those who're excluded;
abortion is
excluding someone from a system no matter how you described it.
2) In FC, we trust the system, acknowledge phenomenon that is
unfolded with
a "Yes" as it is and bring it into our heart.
By acknowledging properly, the guilt is felt and remembered as love.
Can a
guilt be felt and turned into love congruently if some part of it is
being
ignored?
If a client choose to make lies to siblings of the aborted child by
saying
that it's a miscarrage, do you think she/he is ready for FC? If it
is from a
FC facilitator, I can only say there's a substantial distance
between us.
Paul Chung,
from Hong Kong
2009/7/1 randy <randy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <randy%40randygoldberg.org>
<http://www.randygoldberg.org/>>
Hi,
I’m a graduate of the Hellinger Institute of DC and am doing
advanced
training with
Heinz Stark. He recently taught us some interesting info I’d like
to share.
Never have the parent’s tell the children they had an abortion.
This
would make the children insecure.
In general, what happens between the parents is none of the
business of the
kids. In cases where
the aborted child claims a place in the birth order, tell the other
children
that mom
had a miscarriage. An abortion is an intentional miscarriage.
The issue with birth order is that the following kids need to know
that
someone was in the
womb before them, otherwise they can be confused about where they
fit in,
in
the order.
The earliest he has seen an aborted fetus stake its claim to a
place in a
families birth order, is
2 ½ to 3 months. This can be tested by using a representative to
see if it
stands to take a place in
the line of siblings.
Abortion is not equivalent to murder. But in cases where the abortion
happens very late, like 6 months
or later, the perpetrator energy has a similar effect as a murder
to the
family system.
Hope this is helpful,
Randy
www.randygoldberg.org <http://www.randygoldberg.org/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--
鍾梁輝, 一位穿插在兩文三語不同文化領域的啟導教
練
Paul Chung, a Coach serving the motherland with Cantonese, Mandarin
as well
as English
http://www.paulchung.com.hk ;<http://www.paulchung.com.hk>
http://paulchung330.blogspot.com/ ;<http://paulchung330.blogspot.com/>
http://blog.sina.com.cn/bzhong330 ;<http://blog.sina.com.cn/bzhong330>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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