Hi Miriam and all,
While I favor increased background checks and bans on certain assault type
rifles, I fear that these actions might not be as effective as we might
hope. That's because there are already plenty of guns of various types out
on the streets. I fear that increased gun control will cause a black market
to flourish. The way I see it, with all the guns romaing around, the cat is
already out of the bag. One of my friends made an interesting comparison. He
said that trying to round up all the guns on the black market would be just
as hard as trying to round up and deport undocumented immigrants as Trump
would have us do. IF we want to reduce the mass sshootings that now plague
us, stronger gun control is only one of the steps we ought to be taking. WE
need way more funding for programs to help the mentally ill. Also, anyone
who professes loyalty to a group like ISIL or Al Qaeda bares close
supervision.
Bob Hachey
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 1:59 PM
To: 'Carl Jarvis'; blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay,
Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Now that I've seen Chuck's message, yes, all of those things may be issues
except his point about Afghanistan. This guy was born here, not in
Afghanistan. He's an American. It sounds as if he was unstable. He was
involved in domestic violence. He had all kinds of issues. The point is, if
guns weren't readily available, people wouldn't be using them to kill other
people, whatever their motivation. And guns are available because the gun
industry makes undue profits and bribes senators and congresspeople to
refrain from passing meaningful legislation.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Jarvis [mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 12:24 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Miriam Vieni
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was
Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Charles and All,
Your points are interesting, but I would suggest that there is an even
darker issue at work here. That is this, we, the American People, will put
up all sorts of defenses in order to avoid facing the fact that we have
nurtured a violent strain in our culture.
We examine the reasons why someone would resort to mass murder over a
personal affront, or a social or religious difference.
We keep up a barrage of "make believe" stories that present our culture as,
peace loving, gentle, caring people. Then when one of our members strikes
out in anger, using violence to deal with their frustrations, we run about,
clucking like Chicken Little, yelling, "The Sky is Falling in!"
And to make matters even more muddy, we turn around and put the blame on
people from another nation.
Okay, I know of many of the problems our culture places upon Gays, and I
understand that People of Color are disadvantaged in this country, and I get
it that there are Whites who fear being "taken over" by people of different
color or of different Faiths. Frankly, any reason to take up weapons of
mass murder in order to solve a personal problem, should tell us that we,
All Americans, have a serious problem.
But I suspect that instead of dealing face on with our "mean streak", we'll
go on analyzing the reasons to death. And next time, and there most
certainly will be a next time, we'll run about, clacking and clucking.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/16/16, Charles Krugman <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Whether or not Omar Mateen was gay is not the real issue here. Theabout."
real issue is that for whatever reason he had many internal conflicts
that may have contributed to this incident. As a gay man I have
experienced people with many conflicts that manifest themselves in the
gay community. Many of these conflicts seem to center about conflicts
with religious upbringing in
relation to sexuality or what family members or the community might think.
His exposure to the gay community and the club scene could have given
him the opportunity to carry out such an attack as he did. We know
that Afghanistan is one of the countries that has the highest level of
persecution of LGBT people and there are no human rights there or in
other countries where fundamentalist religions are in power. All of
these factors
contributed to the incident and the potential walking time bomb that
Mateen
was. His life was a mess. He virtually failed at whatever he attempted
and had these internal conflicts. For all we know he might have had a
personality disorder that led to this type of antisocial behavior. At
any rate gay or not he still committed an atrocious act of terrorism.
While he may be gay he may have been enraged at men kissing in front
of his young son
as was reported in the media. From a psychological perspective these
dichotomies occur quite frequently.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:06 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was
Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
________________________________________
Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT
Nightclubs By Kali Holloway [1] / AlterNet [2] June 14, 2016 AddThis
Sharing Buttons Share to FacebookShare to TwitterShare to Google+More
AddThis Share optionsShare to Email Omar Mateen, the gunman who
perpetrated the deadliest mass shooting [3] thus far in the United
States early Sunday morning, took the lives of 49 people at a gay club
named Pulse in Orlando, Florida. The venue, like so many dance clubs
that serve LGBT folks, had served as a safe space by those who
patronized it; a sanctuary from anti-gay violence and hatred. Numerous
news outlets have reported on the story as a case of Islamic extremism
or homophobic brutality. But there is new evidence that Mateen was
himself gay, had been seen at Pulse many times over recent years and
had used gay dating apps. While there is no excuse for Mateen's
horrific act, these new details paint a portrait of a man whose
internalized homophobia may have been a factor in the attacks.
Sitora Yusufiy, Mateen's first wife, who says he was often abusive,
told the New York Daily News [4] that when they wed in 2009, he told
her his life had previously included frequent clubbing.
"When we had gotten married, he confessed to me about his past-that
was recent at that time-and that he very much enjoyed going to clubs
and the nightlife," Yusufiy said. "So, I feel like it's a side of him
or a part of him that he lived but probably didn't want everybody to
know
Yusufiy and her current fiance, Marcio Dias, appeared on Brazilianacademy.
television yesterday. The UK's Daily Mail [4] notes that during the
interview, which was translated from Portuguese, Dias "told the
channel that Yusufiy told him Mateen had 'gay tendencies' and had been
called gay in front of her on several occasions by his father."
The paper also quotes Dias as telling his Brazilian interviewers, "The
FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media."
The Daily News also points to an interview with one of Mateen's
classmates from 2006, a period when both were enrolled in a Florida
police
Thehe had a wife and child."
classmate spoke anonymously with Orlando's WFTV9, telling the station
that Mateen had once asked him out on a date.
"We went to a few gay bars with him," the classmate said, "and I was
not out at the time, so I declined his offer."
At least four regular patrons of Pulse said they had seen Mateen at
the club on numerous occasions before Sunday, according to the Orlando
Sentinel [5].
While there have been news items suggesting Mateen had visited the
venue in recent weeks for surveillance purposes, other clubgoers say
Mateen's visits went back years.
"Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by
himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and
belligerent," Ty Smith told the paper. "We didn't really talk to him a
lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times. He told
us
Another patron, Chris Callen, told the Canadian Press that he had seenabout."
Mateen in the club multiple times.
"It's the same guy," Callen, who performs drag using the stage name
Kristina McLaughlin, told CJAD [6]. "He's been going to this bar for
at least three years."
Mateen's father, Mir Seddique, previously told NBC News [7] that his
son had become "enraged" after seeing two men kiss in the weeks prior
to the carrying out the massacre. Smith and Callen expressed doubt
that incident was connected to the killings, stating that Mateen had
witnessed plenty of men kiss before in the club.
"That's bullcrap, right there," said Smith to CJAD. "No offense.
That's straight-up crap. He's been around us. Some of those people did
a little more than (kiss) outside the bar... He was partying with the
people who supposedly drove him to do this?"
Smith added, "[Mateen would get] really, really drunk... He couldn't
drink when he was at home-around his wife, or family. His father was
really strict... He used to bitch about it."
Another Pulse regular told the Los Angeles Times [8] that Mateen had
messaged him regularly using the LGBT-focused app Jack'd. Police said
they are looking into Mateen's related activity.
As of this writing, six of those [9] shot by Mateen remain in critical
condition. Over the last two days, vigils have been held around the
country, as well as abroad, for those who were fatally killed by the
shooter.
Kali Holloway is a senior writer and the associate editor of media and
culture at AlterNet.
Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [10]
[11]
________________________________________
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ex-wife-pulse-patrons-omar-m
ateen- was-gay-regularly-attended-lgbt-nightclubs
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/kali-holloway
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html
[4]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639961/Orlando-terrorist-went
-gay-c
lub-Pulse-dozen-times-got-drunk-belligerent-talked-wife-kid-massacring
-49-pe
ople-there.html
[5]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/o
s-orla ndo-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html
[6] http://www.cjad.com/WorldCP/Article.aspx?id=517501
[7]
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-hat
e-what
-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496
[8]
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-2016061
3-snap
-story.html
[9]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/14/fbi-dire
ctor-o
rlando-shooting-probe-also-looks-backward-into-agency-files-on-shooter
/?utm_
term=.14b600800d6a
[10] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons:
Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs [11]
http://www.alternet.org/ [12] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT
Nightclubs By Kali Holloway [1] / AlterNet [2] June 14, 2016 AddThis
Sharing ButtonsShare to FacebookShare to TwitterShare to
Google+More
AddThis Share optionsShare to Email
Omar Mateen, the gunman who perpetrated the deadliest mass shooting
[3] thus far in the United States early Sunday morning, took the lives
of 49 people at a gay club named Pulse in Orlando, Florida. The venue,
like so many dance clubs that serve LGBT folks, had served as a safe
space by those who patronized it; a sanctuary from anti-gay violence
and hatred. Numerous news outlets have reported on the story as a case
of Islamic extremism or homophobic brutality. But there is new
evidence that Mateen was himself gay, had been seen at Pulse many
times over recent years and had used gay dating apps. While there is
no excuse for Mateen's horrific act, these new details paint a
portrait of a man whose internalized homophobia may have been a factor
in the attacks.
Sitora Yusufiy, Mateen's first wife, who says he was often abusive,
told the New York Daily News [4] that when they wed in 2009, he told
her his life had previously included frequent clubbing.
"When we had gotten married, he confessed to me about his past-that
was recent at that time-and that he very much enjoyed going to clubs
and the nightlife," Yusufiy said. "So, I feel like it's a side of him
or a part of him that he lived but probably didn't want everybody to
know
Yusufiy and her current fiance, Marcio Dias, appeared on Brazilianacademy.
television yesterday. The UK's Daily Mail [4] notes that during the
interview, which was translated from Portuguese, Dias "told the
channel that Yusufiy told him Mateen had 'gay tendencies' and had been
called gay in front of her on several occasions by his father."
The paper also quotes Dias as telling his Brazilian interviewers, "The
FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media."
The Daily News also points to an interview with one of Mateen's
classmates from 2006, a period when both were enrolled in a Florida
police
Thehe had a wife and child."
classmate spoke anonymously with Orlando's WFTV9, telling the station
that Mateen had once asked him out on a date.
"We went to a few gay bars with him," the classmate said, "and I was
not out at the time, so I declined his offer."
At least four regular patrons of Pulse said they had seen Mateen at
the club on numerous occasions before Sunday, according to the Orlando
Sentinel [5].
While there have been news items suggesting Mateen had visited the
venue in recent weeks for surveillance purposes, other clubgoers say
Mateen's visits went back years.
"Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by
himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and
belligerent," Ty Smith told the paper. "We didn't really talk to him a
lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times. He told
us
Another patron, Chris Callen, told the Canadian Press that he had seen
Mateen in the club multiple times.
"It's the same guy," Callen, who performs drag using the stage name
Kristina McLaughlin, told CJAD [6]. "He's been going to this bar for
at least three years."
Mateen's father, Mir Seddique, previously told NBC News [7] that his
son had become "enraged" after seeing two men kiss in the weeks prior
to the carrying out the massacre. Smith and Callen expressed doubt
that incident was connected to the killings, stating that Mateen had
witnessed plenty of men kiss before in the club.
"That's bullcrap, right there," said Smith to CJAD. "No offense.
That's straight-up crap. He's been around us. Some of those people did
a little more than (kiss) outside the bar... He was partying with the
people who supposedly drove him to do this?"
Smith added, "[Mateen would get] really, really drunk... He couldn't
drink when he was at home-around his wife, or family. His father was
really strict... He used to bitch about it."
Another Pulse regular told the Los Angeles Times [8] that Mateen had
messaged him regularly using the LGBT-focused app Jack'd. Police said
they are looking into Mateen's related activity.
As of this writing, six of those [9] shot by Mateen remain in critical
condition. Over the last two days, vigils have been held around the
country, as well as abroad, for those who were fatally killed by the
shooter.
Kali Holloway is a senior writer and the associate editor of media and
culture at AlterNet.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [10]
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.[11]
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ex-wife-pulse-patrons-omar-m
ateen- was-gay-regularly-attended-lgbt-nightclubs
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/kali-holloway
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html
[4]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639961/Orlando-terrorist-went
-gay-c
lub-Pulse-dozen-times-got-drunk-belligerent-talked-wife-kid-massacring
-49-pe
ople-there.html
[5]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/o
s-orla ndo-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html
[6] http://www.cjad.com/WorldCP/Article.aspx?id=517501
[7]
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-hat
e-what
-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496
[8]
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-2016061
3-snap
-story.html
[9]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/14/fbi-dire
ctor-o
rlando-shooting-probe-also-looks-backward-into-agency-files-on-shooter
/?utm_
term=.14b600800d6a
[10] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons:
Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs [11]
http://www.alternet.org/ [12] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
