you forgot to mention the campaign against rock and roll music spearheaded
by people like Tipper Gore and others. for me one of the questionable points
leading me to be lukewarm about supporting Al Gore in his bid for President.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 12:30 PM
To: 'Carl Jarvis'
Cc: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay,
Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Carl,
A very long time ago, when I was in elementary school, people were bemoaning
the negative influence that violent comic books had on children. There was a
movement to stop the sale of comic books which included violence that was
supported by psychologists. Then next, they blamed the violence in society
on television, then video games. If you think about it, the comic books, the
TV shows, the video games, were based on war stories and crime stories. So
we could blame all of this on war, perhaps? We could blame war on the
profiteering of the military contractors. But then, if you read the bible,
you see that there were wars way before there were military contractors. So
maybe we can just admit that along with love and altruism, human nature also
includes aggression. Now one can arrange society so that it will foster
love, altruism and cooperation, or one can set up conditions that foster
aggression, competition, hostility and stress. We now do have the ability to
build our society in ways that will encourage what we want people to do.
Donald Trump knows that. He is manipulating his followers in a specific
direction.Bernie Sanders knows that. This morning I listened to the talk he
gave last night that I forgot all about last night. He is looking for a
progressive movement to sweep the country in years to come.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Jarvis [mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 2:29 PM
To: Miriam Vieni
Cc: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was
Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Miriam, you're two for two!
I remember years ago in Seattle, there was an effort to cut down on auto
theft. The campaign went something like, Don't let a good boy go bad", or
something like that.
The push was to remind people to lock their cars when not using them.
Cutting down on the ease of access did reduce the number of thefts.
The same is true of assult weapons. Reduce ease of access and the rate of
murder by assult weapons will go down.
Then we will need to turn our attention on how to rid ourselves of all the
influences that reinforce our violent streak. We might begin by looking at
the numbers of violent video games kids cut their teeth on.
We could work to reduce the explicit violence and especially the sexual
violence we allow our youth to be exposed to. We might explore the reasons
why we are so fascinated with violence.
Or maybe the solution is to provide a gun to anyone over the age of 16.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/17/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Now that I've seen Chuck's message, yes, all of those things may belegislation.
issues except his point about Afghanistan. This guy was born here, not
in Afghanistan. He's an American. It sounds as if he was unstable. He
was involved in domestic violence. He had all kinds of issues. The
point is, if guns weren't readily available, people wouldn't be using
them to kill other people, whatever their motivation. And guns are
available because the gun industry makes undue profits and bribes
senators and congresspeople to refrain from passing meaningful
Sky is Falling in!"
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Jarvis [mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 12:24 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Miriam Vieni
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen
Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Charles and All,
Your points are interesting, but I would suggest that there is an even
darker issue at work here. That is this, we, the American People,
will put up all sorts of defenses in order to avoid facing the fact
that we have nurtured a violent strain in our culture.
We examine the reasons why someone would resort to mass murder over a
personal affront, or a social or religious difference.
We keep up a barrage of "make believe" stories that present our
culture as, peace loving, gentle, caring people. Then when one of our
members strikes out in anger, using violence to deal with their
frustrations, we run about, clucking like Chicken Little, yelling, "The
And to make matters even more muddy, we turn around and put the blameclucking.
on people from another nation.
Okay, I know of many of the problems our culture places upon Gays, and
I understand that People of Color are disadvantaged in this country,
and I get it that there are Whites who fear being "taken over" by
people of different color or of different Faiths. Frankly, any reason
to take up weapons of mass murder in order to solve a personal
problem, should tell us that we, All Americans, have a serious
problem.
But I suspect that instead of dealing face on with our "mean streak",
we'll go on analyzing the reasons to death. And next time, and there
most certainly will be a next time, we'll run about, clacking and
terrorism.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/16/16, Charles Krugman <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Whether or not Omar Mateen was gay is not the real issue here. The
real issue is that for whatever reason he had many internal conflicts
that may have contributed to this incident. As a gay man I have
experienced people with many conflicts that manifest themselves in
the gay community. Many of these conflicts seem to center about
conflicts with religious upbringing in
relation to sexuality or what family members or the community might
think.
His exposure to the gay community and the club scene could have given
him the opportunity to carry out such an attack as he did. We know
that Afghanistan is one of the countries that has the highest level
of persecution of LGBT people and there are no human rights there or
in other countries where fundamentalist religions are in power. All
of these factors
contributed to the incident and the potential walking time bomb that
Mateen
was. His life was a mess. He virtually failed at whatever he
attempted and had these internal conflicts. For all we know he might
have had a personality disorder that led to this type of antisocial
behavior. At any rate gay or not he still committed an atrocious act of
While he may be gay he may have been enraged at men kissing in frontabout."
of his young son
as was reported in the media. From a psychological perspective these
dichotomies occur quite frequently.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:06 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was
Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
________________________________________
Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT
Nightclubs By Kali Holloway [1] / AlterNet [2] June 14, 2016 AddThis
Sharing Buttons Share to FacebookShare to TwitterShare to Google+More
AddThis Share optionsShare to Email Omar Mateen, the gunman who
perpetrated the deadliest mass shooting [3] thus far in the United
States early Sunday morning, took the lives of 49 people at a gay
club named Pulse in Orlando, Florida. The venue, like so many dance
clubs that serve LGBT folks, had served as a safe space by those who
patronized it; a sanctuary from anti-gay violence and hatred.
Numerous news outlets have reported on the story as a case of Islamic
extremism or homophobic brutality. But there is new evidence that
Mateen was himself gay, had been seen at Pulse many times over recent
years and had used gay dating apps. While there is no excuse for
Mateen's horrific act, these new details paint a portrait of a man
whose internalized homophobia may have been a factor in the attacks.
Sitora Yusufiy, Mateen's first wife, who says he was often abusive,
told the New York Daily News [4] that when they wed in 2009, he told
her his life had previously included frequent clubbing.
"When we had gotten married, he confessed to me about his past-that
was recent at that time-and that he very much enjoyed going to clubs
and the nightlife," Yusufiy said. "So, I feel like it's a side of him
or a part of him that he lived but probably didn't want everybody to
know
Yusufiy and her current fiance, Marcio Dias, appeared on Brazilianacademy.
television yesterday. The UK's Daily Mail [4] notes that during the
interview, which was translated from Portuguese, Dias "told the
channel that Yusufiy told him Mateen had 'gay tendencies' and had
been called gay in front of her on several occasions by his father."
The paper also quotes Dias as telling his Brazilian interviewers,
"The FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media."
The Daily News also points to an interview with one of Mateen's
classmates from 2006, a period when both were enrolled in a Florida
police
Thehe had a wife and child."
classmate spoke anonymously with Orlando's WFTV9, telling the station
that Mateen had once asked him out on a date.
"We went to a few gay bars with him," the classmate said, "and I was
not out at the time, so I declined his offer."
At least four regular patrons of Pulse said they had seen Mateen at
the club on numerous occasions before Sunday, according to the
Orlando Sentinel [5].
While there have been news items suggesting Mateen had visited the
venue in recent weeks for surveillance purposes, other clubgoers say
Mateen's visits went back years.
"Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by
himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and
belligerent," Ty Smith told the paper. "We didn't really talk to him
a lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times. He
told us
Another patron, Chris Callen, told the Canadian Press that he hadabout."
seen Mateen in the club multiple times.
"It's the same guy," Callen, who performs drag using the stage name
Kristina McLaughlin, told CJAD [6]. "He's been going to this bar for
at least three years."
Mateen's father, Mir Seddique, previously told NBC News [7] that his
son had become "enraged" after seeing two men kiss in the weeks prior
to the carrying out the massacre. Smith and Callen expressed doubt
that incident was connected to the killings, stating that Mateen had
witnessed plenty of men kiss before in the club.
"That's bullcrap, right there," said Smith to CJAD. "No offense.
That's straight-up crap. He's been around us. Some of those people
did a little more than (kiss) outside the bar... He was partying with
the people who supposedly drove him to do this?"
Smith added, "[Mateen would get] really, really drunk... He couldn't
drink when he was at home-around his wife, or family. His father was
really strict... He used to bitch about it."
Another Pulse regular told the Los Angeles Times [8] that Mateen had
messaged him regularly using the LGBT-focused app Jack'd. Police said
they are looking into Mateen's related activity.
As of this writing, six of those [9] shot by Mateen remain in
critical condition. Over the last two days, vigils have been held
around the country, as well as abroad, for those who were fatally
killed by the shooter.
Kali Holloway is a senior writer and the associate editor of media
and culture at AlterNet.
Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [10]
[11]
________________________________________
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ex-wife-pulse-patrons-omar-
m
ateen- was-gay-regularly-attended-lgbt-nightclubs
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/kali-holloway
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.htm
l
[4]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639961/Orlando-terrorist-wen
t
-gay-c
lub-Pulse-dozen-times-got-drunk-belligerent-talked-wife-kid-massacrin
g
-49-pe
ople-there.html
[5]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/
o s-orla ndo-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html
[6] http://www.cjad.com/WorldCP/Article.aspx?id=517501
[7]
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-ha
t
e-what
-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496
[8]
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-201606
1
3-snap
-story.html
[9]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/14/fbi-dir
e
ctor-o
rlando-shooting-probe-also-looks-backward-into-agency-files-on-shoote
r
/?utm_
term=.14b600800d6a
[10] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons:
Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs [11]
http://www.alternet.org/ [12] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home > Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs
Ex-Wife, Pulse Patrons: Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT
Nightclubs By Kali Holloway [1] / AlterNet [2] June 14, 2016 AddThis
Sharing ButtonsShare to FacebookShare to TwitterShare to
Google+More
AddThis Share optionsShare to Email
Omar Mateen, the gunman who perpetrated the deadliest mass shooting
[3] thus far in the United States early Sunday morning, took the
lives of 49 people at a gay club named Pulse in Orlando, Florida. The
venue, like so many dance clubs that serve LGBT folks, had served as
a safe space by those who patronized it; a sanctuary from anti-gay
violence and hatred. Numerous news outlets have reported on the story
as a case of Islamic extremism or homophobic brutality. But there is
new evidence that Mateen was himself gay, had been seen at Pulse many
times over recent years and had used gay dating apps. While there is
no excuse for Mateen's horrific act, these new details paint a
portrait of a man whose internalized homophobia may have been a
factor in the attacks.
Sitora Yusufiy, Mateen's first wife, who says he was often abusive,
told the New York Daily News [4] that when they wed in 2009, he told
her his life had previously included frequent clubbing.
"When we had gotten married, he confessed to me about his past-that
was recent at that time-and that he very much enjoyed going to clubs
and the nightlife," Yusufiy said. "So, I feel like it's a side of him
or a part of him that he lived but probably didn't want everybody to
know
Yusufiy and her current fiance, Marcio Dias, appeared on Brazilianacademy.
television yesterday. The UK's Daily Mail [4] notes that during the
interview, which was translated from Portuguese, Dias "told the
channel that Yusufiy told him Mateen had 'gay tendencies' and had
been called gay in front of her on several occasions by his father."
The paper also quotes Dias as telling his Brazilian interviewers,
"The FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media."
The Daily News also points to an interview with one of Mateen's
classmates from 2006, a period when both were enrolled in a Florida
police
Thehe had a wife and child."
classmate spoke anonymously with Orlando's WFTV9, telling the station
that Mateen had once asked him out on a date.
"We went to a few gay bars with him," the classmate said, "and I was
not out at the time, so I declined his offer."
At least four regular patrons of Pulse said they had seen Mateen at
the club on numerous occasions before Sunday, according to the
Orlando Sentinel [5].
While there have been news items suggesting Mateen had visited the
venue in recent weeks for surveillance purposes, other clubgoers say
Mateen's visits went back years.
"Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by
himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and
belligerent," Ty Smith told the paper. "We didn't really talk to him
a lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times. He
told us
Another patron, Chris Callen, told the Canadian Press that he had
seen Mateen in the club multiple times.
"It's the same guy," Callen, who performs drag using the stage name
Kristina McLaughlin, told CJAD [6]. "He's been going to this bar for
at least three years."
Mateen's father, Mir Seddique, previously told NBC News [7] that his
son had become "enraged" after seeing two men kiss in the weeks prior
to the carrying out the massacre. Smith and Callen expressed doubt
that incident was connected to the killings, stating that Mateen had
witnessed plenty of men kiss before in the club.
"That's bullcrap, right there," said Smith to CJAD. "No offense.
That's straight-up crap. He's been around us. Some of those people
did a little more than (kiss) outside the bar... He was partying with
the people who supposedly drove him to do this?"
Smith added, "[Mateen would get] really, really drunk... He couldn't
drink when he was at home-around his wife, or family. His father was
really strict... He used to bitch about it."
Another Pulse regular told the Los Angeles Times [8] that Mateen had
messaged him regularly using the LGBT-focused app Jack'd. Police said
they are looking into Mateen's related activity.
As of this writing, six of those [9] shot by Mateen remain in
critical condition. Over the last two days, vigils have been held
around the country, as well as abroad, for those who were fatally
killed by the shooter.
Kali Holloway is a senior writer and the associate editor of media
and culture at AlterNet.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'. [10]
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.[11]
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ex-wife-pulse-patrons-omar-
m
ateen- was-gay-regularly-attended-lgbt-nightclubs
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/kali-holloway
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.htm
l
[4]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639961/Orlando-terrorist-wen
t
-gay-c
lub-Pulse-dozen-times-got-drunk-belligerent-talked-wife-kid-massacrin
g
-49-pe
ople-there.html
[5]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/
o s-orla ndo-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html
[6] http://www.cjad.com/WorldCP/Article.aspx?id=517501
[7]
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-ha
t
e-what
-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496
[8]
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-201606
1
3-snap
-story.html
[9]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/14/fbi-dir
e
ctor-o
rlando-shooting-probe-also-looks-backward-into-agency-files-on-shoote
r
/?utm_
term=.14b600800d6a
[10] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Ex-Wife, Pulse
Patrons:
Omar Mateen Was Gay, Regularly Attended LGBT Nightclubs [11]
http://www.alternet.org/ [12] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
