[bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 13:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
The only problem I see with rejecting poor scans is
that they might not get re-scanned. In many case, it
probably doesn't matter--the book isn't that important
and in some cases the submitter doesn't really deserve
the credit, and in the one case that I'm thinking of,
probably doesn't care. But I've taken at least one
book that I can think of that was in really bad shape
and felt that it deserved to be in the collection and
so I didn't mind taking the time to validate it
carefully. It's difficult for me to scan--shoulder
pain sets in--and so I prefer to take the time to
validate. However, I consider myself the court of last
resort. If I'm not enjoying it and it's in really bad
shape, and I don't think it's a particularly important
book, I will reject it and suggest it be rescanned,
but somebody who might enjoy it more.
Cindy
--- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> When Bookshare was first getting established, I can
> understand that they encouraged people to just send
> along their scanned books, many of which I'm sure
> the submitter had never intended to do anything with
> except scan for his own pleasure. However, the
> situation has changed significantly since then.
> Present day scanning equipment has improved so much
> that if the person doing the scanning with plans to
> submit can produce an excellent scan if he/she is
> willing to read the scan and make corrections
> accordingly. For this reason too we are seeing many
> more high quality books coming into the collection.
> However, we still see a few marked good or even
> fair. I personally think that the time has come that
> if a validator gets one of these books which
> obviously the submitter hasn't cared enough about to
> try to correct, the book should be rejected, not
> just released for someone else to struggle with. I
> have seen books on the step 1 page that the
> submitter rated as excellent which were not; this is
> why I made the suggestion some time ago that
> Bookshare's tool be used after the submission as
> well as after the validation to help catch this type
> of book. Sure, it wouldn't catch missing words,
> incorrect words, etc. but it should at least reflect
> a true accuracy rating in terms of spelling errors.
> Since I no longer am comfortable scanning new books
> which may be replaced by the N.Y. Times scanning, I
> am choosing from the fair books list which is on
> Rui's web site and rescanning books that I want to
> see in the collection with an excellent rating. I'm
> sure I miss things too, but at least the book will
> be enjoyable. It no longer makes sense to me for
> Bookshare to have to end up paying for two
> submissions and two validations to get an excellent
> copy when the book should have been rejected the
> first time around. I hope this comes across as
> positive criticism and not just negativity because I
> am truly highly supportive of Bookshare's endeavor.
> Jill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie Morales
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:20 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Downloading fair-rated
> books
>
>
> Hi, Jill. Most of the time, I don't download them,
> either, unless it's one I really want to read, but
> even then, I have to want to read it really badly
> and have no other option for getting the book.
> Sometimes, I'm pleasantly surprised and it's really
> not that bad, but there have been a few times when
> books have slipped through the cracks and were rated
> better than they should have been. Those are the
> ones that really frustrate me. If something is rated
> fair and I choose to download it, anyway, at least I
> can be prepared for what I might have to deal with,
> but really, I can't blame any kind of automated tool
> for these books slipping through the cracks. Some of
> the ones I've read recently had half a line or more
> totally missing, but what was there was complete and
> did make sense, so no automated tool would have
> picked up on that. Take care.
> Julie Morales
> Life is a gift from God. What we do with it is our
> gift to Him.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jill O'Connell
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:08 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page
> numbers and chapter headings
>
>
> I can't help wondering how many of us even
> download books marked fair or even good; I know I
> don't.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donna Smith
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page
> numbers and chapter headings
>
>
> Hi Evan and others following this thread.
>
>
>
> I apologize for being the one to open this
> particular can of worms. Every time we've had this
> discussion on the list, it has brought up these same
> issues. There is no official requirement for this
> from BookShare. The goal is still to get as many
> books as possible in the collection following the
> absolute guidelines regarding copyright laws as
> amended, and the concern of quality is next in line
> with the understanding that it is possible to rate
> books as fair, good or excellent.
>
>
>
> However, many of us who do the work have our
> own standards of quality for our submissions and so
> we've come up with tips for how to get the best
> quality possible. These standards, and they vary
> from volunteer to volunteer, are not required by
> anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
>
>
>
> Personally, when I submit a book, I try to do
> as much clean-up as possible so that the validator
> has an easy job. Actually, I try to submit the book
> in a form I'd not mind reading. I knew from
> previous discussions on this list that the BS
> software has little quirks that we can accommodate
> by creating a particular format, though I had
> forgotten what that was specifically. I choose to
> follow this pattern of blank line, page number,
> blank line, text, or, false header, blank line,
> chapter heading, blank line text, because it will
> produce a better end result for all formats, but
> there is no requirement to do so. Volunteers can do
> as much as they are comfortable with doing both as
> submitters and validators, and the addition to the
> collection is appreciated by all.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps to explain it all a bit. Keep
> on scanning and keep up the good work!
>
>
>
> Peace and Hope,
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Evan Reese
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page
> numbers and chapter headings
>
>
>
> Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I
> strip the headings manually, then why does the
> stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip
> them, then I need to make them consistent so the
> stripper can strip them correctly? But if I do
> strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the
> beginning of each chapter so the chapter heading
> doesn't get stripped? Do I have this all correct?
> Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip
> anything? Aren't we supposed - ideally anyhow - to
> be replicating the original book, in which there is
> in fact a heading at the top of each page, except on
> those which begin a chapter. This makes a lot of
> extra work and complexity and a reduction of quality
> for those who can't keep straight all the
> persnickety demands of the Bookshare software, or
> who don't have the time to go through and fix
> everything just right so that other readers can have
> a decent reading experience. I would say, just drop
> the whole stripping thing and make life simpler for
> everyone and then we won't have these quality
> problems.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gerald Hovas
>
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting
> page numbers and chapter headings
>
>
>
> Donna,
>
>
>
> 1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after
> the page number when the page number is in the
> header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the
> page. I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary
> between the page number and the text, but I can say
> that putting one after the header does work well.
> If you leave the blank lines at the top and bottom
> of the pages off, then some odd things will happen
> to the page numbers when the HTML file is created.
> The page numbers end up as part of a paragraph
> instead of on a separate line.
>
>
> Example of how the page should look...
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> 95
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> 2.. Yes, put a blank line between the
> chapter heading and the first line of text. Again,
> I don't know that this is necessary, but it does
> work well, and some people have said that it is
> necessary.
>
>
> 3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper
> something to strip other than the chapter heading or
> the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest
> thing to do when page numbers are normally at the
> top of pages except on pages where a chapter begins
> is to move the page number from the bottom of the
> page to the top. If page numbers are always at the
> bottom of the page, then place a false header above
> the chapter heading. Using the title works well,
> and it won't look as odd if the Stripper fails to
> strip it for some odd reason. It helps to strip all
> of the real headers manually since its easier to
> strip them yourself than to insure that they are
> consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
> all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow
> the pattern of the headers and put whatever header
> would normally appear on the top of that page above
> the chapter heading.
>
>
>
> Examples of how pages should look...
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> 95
>
>
>
> Chapter Seven
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> The Firm
>
>
>
> Chapter Seven
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> 95
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> Or if the page would normally contain the
> author's name instead of the title...
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> John Grisham
>
>
>
> Chapter Seven
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> I can't say that these are the only ways to
> do it, but I've had excellent results with these
> approaches.
>
>
>
> HTH
>
>
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Donna Smith
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page
> numbers and chapter headings
>
>
>
> Hi all.
>
>
>
> I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't
> find the answer on any of the official or unofficial
> sites giving tips to scanners.
>
>
>
> Did we ever determine absolutely what should
> be done to protect page numbers and chapter
> headings? What I want to know is:
>
>
>
> 1.. At the top of each page, do I need to
> put a blank line before and/or after the page
> number?
> 2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear
> at the top of the page, do I put a blank line before
> and/or after it?
> 3.. Is it necessary to have something at
> the top of the page for the BookShare stripper to
> strip?
>
>
> I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each
> scan regarding page numbers, chapter headings and
> stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do it
> in such a way that it will result in the best book
> in the finished product.
>
>
>
> I really, really hope that an answer has
> been found to this question and that I'm not opening
> up the can of worms we've had before about the
> different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Peace and Hope,
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
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