[bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
- From: "Jill O'Connell" <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 09:04:17 -0700
When Bookshare was first getting established, I can understand that they
encouraged people to just send along their scanned books, many of which I'm
sure the submitter had never intended to do anything with except scan for his
own pleasure. However, the situation has changed significantly since then.
Present day scanning equipment has improved so much that if the person doing
the scanning with plans to submit can produce an excellent scan if he/she is
willing to read the scan and make corrections accordingly. For this reason too
we are seeing many more high quality books coming into the collection. However,
we still see a few marked good or even fair. I personally think that the time
has come that if a validator gets one of these books which obviously the
submitter hasn't cared enough about to try to correct, the book should be
rejected, not just released for someone else to struggle with. I have seen
books on the step 1 page that the submitter rated as excellent which were not;
this is why I made the suggestion some time ago that Bookshare's tool be used
after the submission as well as after the validation to help catch this type of
book. Sure, it wouldn't catch missing words, incorrect words, etc. but it
should at least reflect a true accuracy rating in terms of spelling errors.
Since I no longer am comfortable scanning new books which may be replaced by
the N.Y. Times scanning, I am choosing from the fair books list which is on
Rui's web site and rescanning books that I want to see in the collection with
an excellent rating. I'm sure I miss things too, but at least the book will be
enjoyable. It no longer makes sense to me for Bookshare to have to end up
paying for two submissions and two validations to get an excellent copy when
the book should have been rejected the first time around. I hope this comes
across as positive criticism and not just negativity because I am truly highly
supportive of Bookshare's endeavor. Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Morales
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Downloading fair-rated books
Hi, Jill. Most of the time, I don't download them, either, unless it's one I
really want to read, but even then, I have to want to read it really badly and
have no other option for getting the book. Sometimes, I'm pleasantly surprised
and it's really not that bad, but there have been a few times when books have
slipped through the cracks and were rated better than they should have been.
Those are the ones that really frustrate me. If something is rated fair and I
choose to download it, anyway, at least I can be prepared for what I might have
to deal with, but really, I can't blame any kind of automated tool for these
books slipping through the cracks. Some of the ones I've read recently had half
a line or more totally missing, but what was there was complete and did make
sense, so no automated tool would have picked up on that. Take care.
Julie Morales
Life is a gift from God. What we do with it is our gift to Him.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jill O'Connell
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
I can't help wondering how many of us even download books marked fair or
even good; I know I don't.
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi Evan and others following this thread.
I apologize for being the one to open this particular can of worms.
Every time we've had this discussion on the list, it has brought up these same
issues. There is no official requirement for this from BookShare. The goal is
still to get as many books as possible in the collection following the absolute
guidelines regarding copyright laws as amended, and the concern of quality is
next in line with the understanding that it is possible to rate books as fair,
good or excellent.
However, many of us who do the work have our own standards of quality for
our submissions and so we've come up with tips for how to get the best quality
possible. These standards, and they vary from volunteer to volunteer, are not
required by anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
Personally, when I submit a book, I try to do as much clean-up as
possible so that the validator has an easy job. Actually, I try to submit the
book in a form I'd not mind reading. I knew from previous discussions on this
list that the BS software has little quirks that we can accommodate by creating
a particular format, though I had forgotten what that was specifically. I
choose to follow this pattern of blank line, page number, blank line, text, or,
false header, blank line, chapter heading, blank line text, because it will
produce a better end result for all formats, but there is no requirement to do
so. Volunteers can do as much as they are comfortable with doing both as
submitters and validators, and the addition to the collection is appreciated by
all.
Hope this helps to explain it all a bit. Keep on scanning and keep up
the good work!
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I strip the headings manually,
then why does the stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip them,
then I need to make them consistent so the stripper can strip them correctly?
But if I do strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the beginning of each
chapter so the chapter heading doesn't get stripped? Do I have this all
correct? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip anything? Aren't we
supposed - ideally anyhow - to be replicating the original book, in which there
is in fact a heading at the top of each page, except on those which begin a
chapter. This makes a lot of extra work and complexity and a reduction of
quality for those who can't keep straight all the persnickety demands of the
Bookshare software, or who don't have the time to go through and fix everything
just right so that other readers can have a decent reading experience. I would
say, just drop the whole stripping thing and make life simpler for everyone and
then we won't have these quality problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Donna,
1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the
page number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page.
I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the
text, but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If you
leave the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some odd
things will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created. The page
numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2.. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first
line of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work
well, and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the
chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing to
do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages where a
chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the page to the
top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then place a false
header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well, and it won't
look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd reason. It helps to
strip all of the real headers manually since its easier to strip them yourself
than to insure that they are consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow the pattern of the headers
and put whatever header would normally appear on the top of that page above the
chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the
title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had
excellent results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of
the official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page
numbers and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1.. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before
and/or after the page number?
2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do
I put a blank line before and/or after it?
3.. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the
BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page
numbers, chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do
it in such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question
and that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the
different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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