My understanding is that books that were rejected end up on the Books
Needing a Rescan list; if that is the case, then someone who would like to
see that particular book on the list can treat the book as if it were on the
wish list (which still needs updating) and give it a decent scan.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
The only problem I see with rejecting poor scans is that they might not get re-scanned. In many case, it probably doesn't matter--the book isn't that important and in some cases the submitter doesn't really deserve the credit, and in the one case that I'm thinking of, probably doesn't care. But I've taken at least one book that I can think of that was in really bad shape and felt that it deserved to be in the collection and so I didn't mind taking the time to validate it carefully. It's difficult for me to scan--shoulder pain sets in--and so I prefer to take the time to validate. However, I consider myself the court of last resort. If I'm not enjoying it and it's in really bad shape, and I don't think it's a particularly important book, I will reject it and suggest it be rescanned, but somebody who might enjoy it more.
Cindy
--- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
When Bookshare was first getting established, I can--------------------------------------------------------------------------
understand that they encouraged people to just send
along their scanned books, many of which I'm sure
the submitter had never intended to do anything with
except scan for his own pleasure. However, the
situation has changed significantly since then.
Present day scanning equipment has improved so much
that if the person doing the scanning with plans to
submit can produce an excellent scan if he/she is
willing to read the scan and make corrections
accordingly. For this reason too we are seeing many
more high quality books coming into the collection.
However, we still see a few marked good or even
fair. I personally think that the time has come that
if a validator gets one of these books which
obviously the submitter hasn't cared enough about to
try to correct, the book should be rejected, not
just released for someone else to struggle with. I
have seen books on the step 1 page that the
submitter rated as excellent which were not; this is
why I made the suggestion some time ago that
Bookshare's tool be used after the submission as
well as after the validation to help catch this type
of book. Sure, it wouldn't catch missing words,
incorrect words, etc. but it should at least reflect
a true accuracy rating in terms of spelling errors.
Since I no longer am comfortable scanning new books
which may be replaced by the N.Y. Times scanning, I
am choosing from the fair books list which is on
Rui's web site and rescanning books that I want to
see in the collection with an excellent rating. I'm
sure I miss things too, but at least the book will
be enjoyable. It no longer makes sense to me for
Bookshare to have to end up paying for two
submissions and two validations to get an excellent
copy when the book should have been rejected the
first time around. I hope this comes across as
positive criticism and not just negativity because I
am truly highly supportive of Bookshare's endeavor.
Jill
----- Original Message ----- From: Julie Morales
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Downloading fair-rated
books
Hi, Jill. Most of the time, I don't download them,
either, unless it's one I really want to read, but
even then, I have to want to read it really badly
and have no other option for getting the book.
Sometimes, I'm pleasantly surprised and it's really
not that bad, but there have been a few times when
books have slipped through the cracks and were rated
better than they should have been. Those are the
ones that really frustrate me. If something is rated
fair and I choose to download it, anyway, at least I
can be prepared for what I might have to deal with,
but really, I can't blame any kind of automated tool
for these books slipping through the cracks. Some of
the ones I've read recently had half a line or more
totally missing, but what was there was complete and
did make sense, so no automated tool would have
picked up on that. Take care.
Julie Morales
Life is a gift from God. What we do with it is our
gift to Him.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jill O'Connell
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page
numbers and chapter headings
I can't help wondering how many of us even
download books marked fair or even good; I know I
don't.
----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page
numbers and chapter headings
Hi Evan and others following this thread.
I apologize for being the one to open this particular can of worms. Every time we've had this discussion on the list, it has brought up these same issues. There is no official requirement for this from BookShare. The goal is still to get as many books as possible in the collection following the absolute guidelines regarding copyright laws as amended, and the concern of quality is next in line with the understanding that it is possible to rate books as fair, good or excellent.
However, many of us who do the work have our own standards of quality for our submissions and so we've come up with tips for how to get the best quality possible. These standards, and they vary from volunteer to volunteer, are not required by anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
Personally, when I submit a book, I try to do as much clean-up as possible so that the validator has an easy job. Actually, I try to submit the book in a form I'd not mind reading. I knew from previous discussions on this list that the BS software has little quirks that we can accommodate by creating a particular format, though I had forgotten what that was specifically. I choose to follow this pattern of blank line, page number, blank line, text, or, false header, blank line, chapter heading, blank line text, because it will produce a better end result for all formats, but there is no requirement to do so. Volunteers can do as much as they are comfortable with doing both as submitters and validators, and the addition to the collection is appreciated by all.
Hope this helps to explain it all a bit. Keep on scanning and keep up the good work!
Peace and Hope,
Donna
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I strip the headings manually, then why does the stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip them, then I need to make them consistent so the stripper can strip them correctly? But if I do strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the beginning of each chapter so the chapter heading doesn't get stripped? Do I have this all correct? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip anything? Aren't we supposed - ideally anyhow - to be replicating the original book, in which there is in fact a heading at the top of each page, except on those which begin a chapter. This makes a lot of extra work and complexity and a reduction of quality for those who can't keep straight all the persnickety demands of the Bookshare software, or who don't have the time to go through and fix everything just right so that other readers can have a decent reading experience. I would say, just drop the whole stripping thing and make life simpler for everyone and then we won't have these quality problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Donna,
1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the page number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page. I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the text, but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If you leave the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some odd things will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created. The page numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2.. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first line of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work well, and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing to do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages where a chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the page to the top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then place a false header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well, and it won't look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd reason. It helps to strip all of the real headers manually since its easier to strip them yourself than to insure that they are consistent so that the Stripper will remove them all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow the pattern of the headers and put whatever header would normally appear on the top of that page above the chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had excellent results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of the official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page numbers and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1.. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before and/or after the page number? 2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do I put a blank line before and/or after it? 3.. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page numbers, chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do it in such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question and that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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