[associates] Re: Back up steering systems
- From: BMclane <BMclane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 06:36:17 -0700
Anyone interested in consumer safety!
Brian P. McLane
Paradigm Solutions, LLC.
Governor's Square
29 Rockefeller Blvd.
Rensselaer, NY 12144
(518)426-8850
"A Strategic Allicance Company"
________________________________
From: associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jacques Bolduc
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:01 AM
To: associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [associates] Re: Back up steering systems
This type of problem is typical in an aftermarket modification that taps into
someone else's system. There does exist a steering system (and backup system)
test that has never been used by any reduced effort steering manufacturer (SAE
J2672). To my knowledge, the State of Ohio is requiring that reduced effort
steering systems meet this SAE test as of August 1 2009. There are a couple of
glitches with Ohio's requirement - first, the cost of the test is not justified
considering the business opportunity for the manufacturer. Second, the test has
never been undertaken and nobody knows if it is realistic, feasible or adequate
to demonstrate the reliability and safety of the reduced effort steering.
Lastly, the test centers are not equipped to conduct the test and the first
company to test will bear the brunt of setup costs. I do not know of a supplier
of reduced effort steering systems that can afford to test unless all
manufacturers test and the cost of these systems is adjusted in relation to the
expense - but who wants to talk about increasing prices, or policing who has
tested and who is simply stating that they have tested?
Not much help, I'm sorry. Some options may include NMEDA requiring that these
systems meet more specific requirements, that States require some kind of
demonstration of reliability, etc.
Jacques Bolduc,
SRD Bolduc - Tampa
cel 813-410-4884
From: associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of John Anschutz
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:07 PM
To: associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [associates] Re: Back up steering systems
What a great topic. I am not sure I know the answer. I sometimes wonder if
the backup pump is a backup for a problem that could be prevented. I have a
van with zero effort steering. It suffers from stress due to over-heating of
the steering fluid. I think the original problem stemmed from two sources.
1. If the engine is running and the Van is parked or at idle for an extended
time with the wheels turned it will overheat the steering fluid. 2. Sometimes
with new drivers or in an eval our evaluators want to really check out the
client's turning abilities before ever going on the road. Let me tell you that
the rate of change in wheel direction with a Zero Effort (sorry I am old school
- Maximum reduced effort) steering is far greater than what is typical in
traditional steering. It really heats up the oil. Overheats. The problem is
that if the oil gets too hot seals can fail and you can have a lot of damage
and you may have need for a back up system.
Would a more modern approach be something like installing a steering fluid
cooler like they do in some dirt track racing cars where they put great demands
on steering? I think DSI uses a cooler in their system. Also, if we had a
temperature monitor on the fluid then a dangerous or damaging situation could
most likely be avoided all together. If you can really do that then would you
still need a backup pump? Seems like the consumer would appreciate the ability
to avoid major repair. This is kind of like seeing that your car is
overheating and you stop before you ruin the engine. In this case the
complicating factor is that steering is so much more important for safety to
the consumer. It would be nice if the consumer can avoid a problem and a
failure of any kind. Once you have a need for the backup you are back to oil
squirting somewhere and you could have a fire situation that you mentioned.
Thanks again & I look forward to seeing other thoughts.
John Anschutz
Please don't anyone change there practices based on our discussion. We are
just brainstorming.
Please don't go out and change your practices based on these comments.
On Apr 30, 2009, at 6:51 PM, cbckj@xxxxxxx<mailto:cbckj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for a forum to discuss our issues. It is really appreciated. I am an
inspector and have the unique opportunity to poke my head into, and around a
lot of converted vehicles. I am hoping to solicit opinions and guidance from
this learned group of professionals, and to have some input into the general
NMEDA community. Please understand, I just want to stimulate some dialogue,
not propose policy...case in point:
During inspections I have found that back up steering pumps are mounted in
areas that are subject to damage even from minor impacts. My concern is that
these systems could rupture and leak with high pressure flammable fluids
spraying into the engine compartment. The pumps are frequently mounted in the
front bumper. Back up steering systems have not changed in basic design for
over 25 years. One of my discussion points, (besides location change and
design) is the actual need for these systems. I have seen more problems with
back up steering systems than I have heard reports that they serve their
intended purpose. The maintenance and installation issues are numerous. Is
the intended safety of this device worth the problems? I'm looking forward to
your comments.
C. Kerry Jones
"The Space Between"
cbckj@xxxxxxx<mailto:cbckj@xxxxxxx>
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