John, This seems to be working wonderfully to get discourse on topics flowing. You did a great service. Please add me to the list my information is below. Rick Shaffer, CDRS Coordinator Driver's Evaluation & Training Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center Mail Code EC130 30 Hope Drive Hershey, PA 17033 Telephone (717) 531-7105 Fax (717) 531-4558 Rick Shaffer, CDRS Certified Driver Rehabilitation Specialist, #4720 Coordinator Driver's Evaluation & Training Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center Penn State College of Medicine Phone - (717) 531-7105 Fax - (717) 531-4558 E-mail - rshaffer@xxxxxxx Confidentiality Notice: the information transmitted in this communication may contain confidential information that is solely for the use of the individual or entity named in this message. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, kindly return to me immediately and then delete. Thanks! Have a pleasant day!! >>> John Anschutz <johnanschutz@xxxxxxxxxxx> 4/30/2009 9:06 PM >>> What a great topic. I am not sure I know the answer. I sometimes wonder if the backup pump is a backup for a problem that could be prevented. I have a van with zero effort steering. It suffers from stress due to over-heating of the steering fluid. I think the original problem stemmed from two sources. 1. If the engine is running and the Van is parked or at idle for an extended time with the wheels turned it will overheat the steering fluid. 2. Sometimes with new drivers or in an eval our evaluators want to really check out the client's turning abilities before ever going on the road. Let me tell you that the rate of change in wheel direction with a Zero Effort (sorry I am old school - Maximum reduced effort) steering is far greater than what is typical in traditional steering. It really heats up the oil. Overheats. The problem is that if the oil gets too hot seals can fail and you can have a lot of damage and you may have need for a back up system. Would a more modern approach be something like installing a steering fluid cooler like they do in some dirt track racing cars where they put great demands on steering? I think DSI uses a cooler in their system. Also, if we had a temperature monitor on the fluid then a dangerous or damaging situation could most likely be avoided all together. If you can really do that then would you still need a backup pump? Seems like the consumer would appreciate the ability to avoid major repair. This is kind of like seeing that your car is overheating and you stop before you ruin the engine. In this case the complicating factor is that steering is so much more important for safety to the consumer. It would be nice if the consumer can avoid a problem and a failure of any kind. Once you have a need for the backup you are back to oil squirting somewhere and you could have a fire situation that you mentioned. Thanks again & I look forward to seeing other thoughts. John Anschutz Please don't anyone change there practices based on our discussion. We are just brainstorming. Please don't go out and change your practices based on these comments. On Apr 30, 2009, at 6:51 PM, cbckj@xxxxxxx wrote: Thanks for a forum to discuss our issues. It is really appreciated. I am an inspector and have the unique opportunity to poke my head into, and around a lot of converted vehicles. I am hoping to solicit opinions and guidance from this learned group of professionals, and to have some input into the general NMEDA community. Please understand, I just want to stimulate some dialogue, not propose policy...case in point: During inspections I have found that back up steering pumps are mounted in areas that are subject to damage even from minor impacts. My concern is that these systems could rupture and leak with high pressure flammable fluids spraying into the engine compartment. The pumps are frequently mounted in the front bumper. Back up steering systems have not changed in basic design for over 25 years. One of my discussion points, (besides location change and design) is the actual need for these systems. I have seen more problems with back up steering systems than I have heard reports that they serve their intended purpose. The maintenance and installation issues are numerous. Is the intended safety of this device worth the problems? I'm looking forward to your comments. C. Kerry Jones "The Space Between" cbckj@xxxxxxx The documents accompanying this transmission contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individuals or entity named above. The authorized recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing the information to any other party and is required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender immediately at the address above to arrange for the return of the original documents. Thank you Can't afford a new spring wardrobe? Go shopping in your closet instead ( http://www.stylelist.com/spring-fashion/spring-style/shopping-in-your-closet?ncid=emlweusstyl00000001 )!