[associates] Re: Back up steering systems

  • From: John_Anschutz@xxxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 10:50:54 -0400

Hi Brian,

Great point. Thanks so much.    Every person on this list is concerned with
client safety.  I think it is important to be able to talk about the pros
and cons of any topic in order to raise awareness and ultimately improve
safety for our clients.  Sometimes in the discussions various points might
on the surface look like safety was not a priority but when we look at all
of it together.... safety is helped.

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             @freelists.org                                             cc 
                                       Mark N Glauser <mglauser@xxxxxxx>   
             05/04/2009 09:36          [associates] Re: Back up steering   
             AM                        systems                             
             Please respond to                                             

Anyone interested in consumer safety!

Brian P. McLane

Paradigm Solutions, LLC.

Governor's Square

29 Rockefeller Blvd.

Rensselaer, NY12144


"A Strategic Allicance Company"

From: associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques Bolduc
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:01 AM
To: associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [associates] Re: Back up steering systems

This type of problem is typical in an aftermarket modification that taps
into someone else’s system. There does exist a steering system (and backup
system) test that has never been used by any reduced effort steering
manufacturer (SAE J2672). To my knowledge, the State of Ohiois requiring
that reduced effort steering systems meet this SAE test as of August 1
2009. There are a couple of glitches with Ohio’s requirement – first, the
cost of the test is not justified considering the business opportunity for
the manufacturer. Second, the test has never been undertaken and nobody
knows if it is realistic, feasible or adequate to demonstrate the
reliability and safety of the reduced effort steering. Lastly, the test
centers are not equipped to conduct the test and the first company to test
will bear the brunt of setup costs. I do not know of a supplier of reduced
effort steering systems that can afford to test unless all manufacturers
test and the cost of these systems is adjusted in relation to the expense –
but who wants to talk about increasing prices, or policing who has tested
and who is simply stating that they have tested?

Not much help, I’m sorry. Some options may include NMEDA requiring that
these systems meet more specific requirements, that States require some
kind of demonstration of reliability, etc.

Jacques Bolduc,

SRD Bolduc - Tampa

cel 813-410-4884

From: associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:associates-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Anschutz
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:07 PM
To: associates@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [associates] Re: Back up steering systems

What a great topic.  I am not sure I know the answer.  I sometimes wonder
if the backup pump is a backup for a problem that could be prevented.   I
have a van with zero effort steering.   It suffers from stress due to
over-heating of the steering fluid.   I think the original problem stemmed
from two sources.   1. If the engine is running and the Van is parked or at
idle for an extended time with the wheels turned it will overheat the
steering fluid.  2. Sometimes with new drivers or in an eval our evaluators
want to really check out the client's turning abilities before ever going
on the road.  Let me tell you that the rate of change in wheel direction
with a Zero Effort (sorry I am old school - Maximum reduced effort)
steering is far greater than what is typical in traditional steering.  It
really heats up the oil.  Overheats.  The problem is that if the oil gets
too hot seals can fail and you can have a lot of damage and you may have
need for a back up system.

Would a more modern approach be something like installing a steering fluid
cooler like they do in some dirt track racing cars where they put great
demands on steering?   I think DSI uses a cooler in their system.   Also,
if we had a temperature monitor on the fluid then a dangerous or damaging
situation could most likely be avoided all together.   If you can really do
that then would you still need a backup pump?  Seems like the consumer
would appreciate the ability to avoid major repair.   This is kind of like
seeing that your car is overheating and you stop before you ruin the
engine.   In this case the complicating factor is that steering is so much
more important for safety to the consumer.  It would be nice if the
consumer can avoid a problem and a failure of any kind.   Once you have a
need for the backup you are back to oil squirting somewhere and you could
have a fire situation that you mentioned.

Thanks again & I look forward to seeing other thoughts.

John Anschutz

Please don't anyone change there practices based on our discussion.  We are
just brainstorming.

Please don't go out and change your practices based on these comments.

On Apr 30, 2009, at 6:51 PM, cbckj@xxxxxxx wrote:

Thanks for a forum to discuss our issues.  It is really appreciated.  I am
an inspector and have the unique opportunity to poke my head into, and
around a lot of converted vehicles.  I am hoping to solicit opinions and
guidance from this learned group of professionals, and to have some input
into the general NMEDA community.  Please understand, I just want to
stimulate some dialogue, not propose policy...case in point:
During inspections I have found that back up steering pumps are mounted in
areas that are subject to damage even from minor impacts.  My concern is
that these systems could rupture and leak with high pressure flammable
fluids spraying into the engine compartment. The pumps are
frequently mounted in the front bumper.  Back up steering systems have not
changed in basic design for over 25 years.  One of my discussion points,
(besides location change and design) is the actual need for these systems.
I have seen more problems with back up steering systems than I have heard
reports that they serve their intended purpose.  The maintenance and
installation issues are numerous.  Is the intended safety of this device
worth the problems?  I'm  looking forward to your comments.
C. Kerry Jones
"The Space Between"

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