[access-uk] Re: Website preferences
- From: "Barry Hill" <bbinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 21:22:15 -0000
A mobile site is, incidentally, very easy to navigate with a screen reader
but it is designed specifically for mobile devices. As technology is moving
in that direction more and more, perhaps this is killing two birds with one
stone.
Cheers
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Damon Rose
Sent: 09 March 2011 3:51 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
I think one of the reasons why blind people like the Facebook mobile site is
because it isn't a dynamic one. It serves up straight HTML pages without
whizzy tools on it which slow the screenreader down.
But indeed there are some issues with Facebook about what to write where and
what relates to what. I really can't be bothered to learn it and keep
re-learning it as they change. Facebook is meant to be pleasurable.
Interestingly I was reading an article on a techie website just today that
said many of their readers find facebook is just no fun any more due to its
makeup.
I'd argue that supermarkets and government websites don't need to be as
complex or dynamic as Facebook and can go a very long way towards carving up
their site with good HTML markup which screenreaders can hook into and help
users step thru the pages with relative ease.
Headers are an extremely big part of this.
And I do wonder what use landmarks are when a page already has headers.
Who thought that up? If someone can tell me, I'd appreciate it.
...Damon
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Carol Pearson
Sent: 09 March 2011 15:45
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
Bim,
Whilst I generally support the third option, I agree with you also. I have
difficulty with sites that are full of this and that offer and realistically
it does my head no good at all!
Please remember everyone, there are lots of disabilities, not just
blindness, and some of us have a number to deal with. Should that prohibit
us using the Internet? No, certainly not; but should we do it in the best
way suitable to us - yes, surely. That may be that for some they need less
access and less cluttered pages.
...
One day some of you may be in that very situation following a stroke or some
such debilitating condition.
I personally know that a lot of blind people choose to use the mobile
FaceBook site because of its easier use, less cluttered pages, etc. I'd
therefore say there's definitely a place for this and would like to see
every company offer a mobile site, maybe with less available in content but,
nevertheless, offer good functionality for all!
We also need to bear in mind that this list is generally made up of those
who are keen on access technology, though we differ in knowledge and
abilities. Many out there just want to learn enough to get them by in order
that they can do what they need to do with the computer. Some of us
definitely grasp things easily and quickly and much of our new learning is
based on what we already know. For others, they take a long time and
struggle and a lot of teaching is required. I don't think Social Services
really have any conception of this and the needs that are represented in
their client base and this is definitely something about which the RNIB
should be passionate about!
--
Carol P
---- Original Message ----
From: "Egan, Bim" <Bim.Egan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:37 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
> Hi Barbara,
>
> I'll be one to object. It's hardly fair to call people lazy if they
> have difficulty in learning or dealing with sophisticated software.
> Blind people don't all have
> identical learning abilities. It can also be more
> difficult to learn new techniques when you're 70 than when you're 17.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barbara Wilson
> Sent: 09 March 2011 10:20
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
> Thank you. I was waiting for someone to object and no doubt someone
> will.
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
> Find me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/barkingbabs
> Barbara Wilson
> M: 07917710779
> T: 02887784046
> E: barkingbabs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> IM: creativeeyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Skype: creativeeyes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Clasper" <terry.clasper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:12 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>
>
>> Hi Barbara.
>> You speak total and complete sense in my humble view!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barbara Wilson
>> Sent: 09 March 2011 10:10
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>>
>> Agree with every word of this. Anything other than option C only
>> caters to lazy blind people who want special treatment. The RNIB
>> should not pander to such nonsense.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>>
>>
>> Find me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/barkingbabs
>> Barbara Wilson
>> M: 07917710779
>> T: 02887784046
>> E: barkingbabs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> IM: creativeeyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: creativeeyes
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Barry Toner" <barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:29 AM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On one hand cheers for asking the question, but...
>>> Like Ian I'm mystified
>>
>>> as to why our so called "Flag Ship" charity isn't just pushing for
>>> C.
>
>>> The
>>
>>> sinic in me suggests it's an attempt to look busy by asking a 10
>>> year
>
>>> old,
>>
>>> (at least), question. Not to mention after the fact of broken
>>> accessibility and poor design on sites that the RNIB has consulted
>>> on and earned a silly amount of money in doing so. Perhaps
>>> resources could be better spent on getting the RNIB into a position
>>> were they can enforce accessibility and not just suggest it at a
>>> high mark-up in consultents fees.
>>>
>>> I make no apologies for this email being hard-line or sinical. This
>>> stuff
>>
>>> comes up over and over and over again. It's old and pisses me and
>>> no doubt plenty of other VI folks off.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Iain Lackie
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:08 AM
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>>>>
>>>> surely the answer is obviously C. Design should be inclusive and I
>>>> think we have seen too many examples of "special" sites not having
>>>> all the facilities of the main site or not being properly
>>>> maintained. I can't even see why the question is being asked.
>>>>
>>>> Iain
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Egan, Bim
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:29 AM
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Website preferences
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Apologies if you see this on other lists ...
>>>>
>>>> My name's Bim Egan, I'm the technical lead for RNIB's web access
>>>> team. Web designers sometimes look to RNIB for guidance on what
>>>> sight- impaired people need to make a site accessible. Though we
>>>> have no power to insist that they take our advice, we want to make
>>>> sure that what we say is right for you and others .
>>>>
>>>> Could you help us please, by saying which of the following three
>>>> options (A, B or C) would be more likely to suit your needs?
>>>>
>>>> A. a text-only site, mirroring the main site with all its
>>>> features; or
>>>>
>>>> B. A separate, simplified site made easier for sight-impaired
>>>> people, but with the risk of missing out on some of the features on
>>>> the main site; or
>>>>
>>>> Option C: If it's possible, one website that is accessible for
>>>> everyone, sighted and unsighted.
>>>>
>>>> Option B could mean extra cost for web designers, which they may
>>>> not like to incur. On the other hand some people who work entirely
>>>> from the keyboard tell us that Options A and C can mean far too
>>>> many key strokes for them.
>>>>
>>>> Question: Would it be a good idea for RNIB, as policy, to
>>>> encourage designers of the more popular or important sites for
>>>> independent living, (grocery sites for example) to produce an
>>>> option B version?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Bim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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