[access-uk] Re: Chip and pin and checking amounts was RE: Re: Trust me with your change
- From: "martin wilsher" <m.wilsher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:43:34 +0100
There are some situations, such in chinese take aways, small concerns who
use chip and pin now, where a till is not actually present. These are
smaller concerns than the big stores with massive computers. That's the
situation that I was talking about, where the information is tapped into the
pin machine itself.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Chris
Sent: 05 June 2008 11:37
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Chip and pin and checking amounts was RE: Re: Trust
me with your change
Hi, I'm on about any case where a chip and pin card is used. I only said ATM
as a prime and common example.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:22:11 +0100
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Chip and pin and checking amounts was RE: Re: Trust
me with your change
> What are we onabout here? are we talking about ATM'S or using your
> chip and pin card in a shop. I use my card in the supermarket and my
local pub all
> the time. You always get a receipt which yu can get someone to check.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris" <christopherhallsworth71@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:43 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Chip and pin and checking amounts was RE: Re:
> Trust me with your change
>
>
> >
> > Hi Martin and all, the best thing to do when you want to use your
> > chip and pin card is to bring a sighted trustworthy volunteer, such
> > as a careworker. That way they can not only check that what you're
> > doing is right, but also they can check you got the correct amount
> > of money and, the main thing, read the prompts to you displayed on the
ATM's screen.
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "martin wilsher" <m.wilsher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:02:12 +0100
> > Subject: [access-uk] Chip and pin and checking amounts was RE: Re:
> > Trust me with your change
> >
> >> Hi all. Carrying on from the "trust me with your change," thread,
> >> I thought I'd add this little piece into the mix. How do we, as
> >> blind people, know the person who is tapping the amounts to be paid
> >> by us into
> > the
> >> chip and pin machines are entirely honest all the time? I know
> >> there is
> > a
> >> chance to check the amount before you type in your pin, but how do
> >> we as blind people do this? I use chip and pin all the time, but
> >> as we know,
> > the
> >> safeguards for debit and credit card transactions are not unified,
> >> so
> > how
> >> safe is chip and pin really? Has anyone been ripped off this way?
> >> Fortunately I haven't been, but there is always the potential for
> >> this
> > kind
> >> of thing to happen to anyone who cannot check the amount. Any
thoughts?
> >>
> >> Hope to hear from you soon.
> >>
> >> From Martin.
> >>
> >> Please email me at:
> >>
> >> m.wilsher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> Please visit my website:
> >>
> >> www.martin-wilsher.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf
> > Of
> >> Iain Lackie
> >> Sent: 05 June 2008 09:08
> >> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Trust me with your change
> >>
> >> I have never had any trouble with either notes or change. If I have
> >> had
> > any
> >> queries, they have concerned with being given too much change
> >> rather
> > than
> >> too little.
> >>
> >> Iain
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Andy" <andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:52 AM
> >> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Trust me with your change
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Husna.
> >>
> >> You speak a lot of common sense mate" We don't actually check our
> >> money minute to minute and we place far too much trust in sighted
> >> folks. I'm
> > for
> >> one, am going to start getting a grip of this and tell the bank to
> >> give
> > me
> >> £5.00 notes, rather then £20.00. Although people may call you by
> >> your christian name and you believe that these people like and
> >> trust you, you
> > are
> >> the buyer and need to remain above this. Sooner or or later they
> >> will
> > let
> >> you down, despite the relationship you may think occurs between you
> >> and them.. I'm vastly coming to the conclusion that shop workers
> >> are not my friends at all. The are Robots and I need to stay one step
before them.
> >> They are working for £5.75 an hour and will take any opportunity to
> > improve
> >> this, regardless of your disability. So from now on, all shop
> >> keepers
> > are
> >> no longer my friends. They are service providers and I am the
customer.
> >> It's a shame really as I rather enjoyed being part of the
> >> community. I suppose I've lost my trust in them.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Husna Begum" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:23 AM
> >> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Trust me with your change
> >>
> >>
> >> > so far I i have relied on their honesty as well although I do
> >> > feel
> > some
> >> > disquiet about doing this some times but what can you do? it's
> > difficult
> >> > to
> >> > know whether they've given you a £5 note or £10 note if there is
> >> > only
> > 1
> >> > note
> >> > there. what they should do is have different textured paper for
> >> > the different notes.also do all of you always know exactly how
> >> > much you've
> > got
> >> > in 20s and 10s or do you some times forget to check before you
> >> > left
> > the
> >> > house?
> >> >
> >> > Husna
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Andy" <andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM
> >> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Trust me with your change
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> nHi Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> You are absolutely right of course. My lack of confidence to
> >> >> seek clarification of any change is a different issue and as you
> >> >> said, I
> > did
> >> >> leave the shop. I just feel so very very uneasy about seeking
> >> > confirmation
> >> >> with change. How do I do this? Do I need to seek out another
> > customer
> >> > and
> >> >> ask them to confirm? It's so much easier to burry your head in
> >> >> the
> > sand
> >> > and
> >> >> hop for trust in people. No longer. As I mentioned in an
> >> >> earlier
> >> > message,
> >> >> I'm going to ask the bank for £5.00 notes rather than £20.00
> >> >> from now
> > on,
> >> > so
> >> >> perhaps I can be a bit more proactive at the time of purchase
> >> >> rather
> > than
> >> >> afterwards. Interesting point though. We all know that many
> > visually
> >> >> impaired people lack confidence so how do they cope with
> >> >> challenging
> >> > queries
> >> >> relating to change etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> best wishes.
> >> >>
> >> >> Andy.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Mark Threadgold" <m.j.threadgold@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:10 PM
> >> >> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Trust me with your change
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Andy,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you try and
> >> >> > involve any sort of legal argument with this firm. The fact
> >> >> > is that you did not check
> > your
> >> >> > change. Had you done it there and then it would not have
> >> >> > become an
> >> > issue,
> >> >> > and the fact you left the shop without doing so means you
> >> >> > cannot
> > say
> >> >> > either
> >> >> > way wether you were given the correct amount or not. If they
> >> >> > say
> > the
> >> > till
> >> >> > balanced they will probably have a paper printout of all the
> >> > transactions
> >> >> > done on the till so you would have a hard job proving otherwise.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sorry if it sounds harsh, but I think it would be easier to
> >> >> > put it
> > down
> >> > to
> >> >> > experience and to start checking your change every time.
> >> >> > There is
> > no
> >> >> > reason
> >> >> > to feel distrusting about anything. They would soon shout if
> >> >> > you didn't pay them enough, so you should not feel bad about
> >> >> > checking they have
> > not
> >> > made
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > mistake, or indeed tried to rip you off.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mark Threadgold.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> >> > On Behalf Of Andy
> >> >> > Sent: 03 June 2008 19:00
> >> >> > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Subject: [access-uk] Trust me with your change
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi all.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Here is something to encourage some debate and discussion on
> >> >> > the
> > list.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Last Saturday, I was dropped off at a local builders merchant
> >> >> > and
> > my
> >> > wife
> >> >> > parked outside while I made a couple of purchases indoors.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I had previously visited the bank and had £60.00, in £20.00
> >> >> > notes
> > in my
> >> >> > pocket.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My modest purchase was under £5.00 so I should have ended up
> >> >> > with 2
> >> > £20.00
> >> >> > notes,, a £10.00 and a £5.00 note and some loose change.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I left the shop and walked the 15 foot across the pavement and
> >> >> > got
> > into
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > car, where my wife was waiting on me and to be perfectly frank
> >> >> > I
> > did
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > check my change as I'm unable to do this without feeling very
> >> > distrusting.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > An hour or so later, she asked me for some cash and I emptied
> >> >> > my
> >> > pockets.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I found 2 £20.00 notes a £5.00 note and some small change.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We both realised that the shop had not recognized that I had
> >> >> > handed over
> >> > a
> >> >> > £20, mistaking this for a £10 note perhaps.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I agreed to visit the shop today and sort the problem out.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Well,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The man who served me acknowledged that I had indeed given him
> >> >> > a
> > £20.00
> >> >> > note
> >> >> >
> >> >> > but insisted that in my change he had given me a £10.00 note,
> >> >> > a
> > £5.00
> >> > note
> >> >> > and some change and added that the till was in balance on
> >> >> > Saturday evening.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So I said to the man that if the missing £10.00 was not in the
> > till,
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > not
> >> >> >
> >> >> > in my pocket, then it must be in his pocket. Again he stated
> >> >> > that
> > he
> >> > was
> >> >> > quite sure that he gave me the £10.00 amongst my change.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I asked him of the likelihood of loosing a £10.00 note from a
> > pocket
> >> >> > whilst
> >> >> > not loosing a £5.00 note from the same pocket and he admitted
> >> >> > that
> > this
> >> >> > was
> >> >> > very unlikely, though confirmed that he had given me the
> >> >> > correct change.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I left the shop and this matter bugged me all day. There is
> >> >> > no way when you
> >> >> >
> >> >> > receive a £10.00, a £5.00 and some change and put this in
> >> >> > separate
> >> > pockets
> >> >> > that you would loss one note and retain the other . Around
> >> >> > 5.00pm
> > I
> >> >> > was
> >> >> > getting very angry and telephoned the shop back and advised
> >> >> > them of
> > the
> >> >> > above and told them that I wanted my £10.00 back and a note of
> > apology
> >> > or
> >> >> > I'd be asking my lawyer to contact Consumer Direct tomorrow
> >> >> > with a complaint.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The manager advised that he would telephone me back thirst
> >> >> > thing,
> > so
> >> >> > I'm
> >> >> > quite interested to just how they will play this thing out.
> >> >> > I'm absolutely not interested in receiving £10.00 from their
> >> >> > petty chas tin. I
> > need
> >> > some
> >> >> > form of acknowledgement that thy made a mistake.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So, what do you think guy's.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > All though's uncomfortable moments when you simply push notes
> >> >> > and
> > coins
> >> >> > into
> >> >> >
> >> >> > your pocket, feeling that there is something not write but
> >> >> > wishing above everything to be able to trust the person wheo
> >> >> > has just served you.
> >> > Have
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > been doing this all wrong? if so, how do I check my change
> > withough
> >> >> > drawing
> >> >> >
> >> >> > attention to myself and looking like a miser,. a Scottish one
> >> >> > at
> > that?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Any observations or ideas would be welcomed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best wishes.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Andy
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following
> >> >> > link:-
> >> >> > **
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > __________ NOD32 3155 (20080603) Information __________
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> >> >> > http://www.eset.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >> Checked by AVG.
> >> >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date:
> >> > 04/06/2008 07:10
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
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> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
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> > signature
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