[Wittrs] Constitution vs Causation
- From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 09:13:45 -0400
BruceD wrote:
>Joseph Polanik wrote:
>>would you pay for a diamond and accept a lump of coal?
>No, but I can see the basis for an identity claim
>Joe, can we talk about the possibility that identity and causation can
>hold apart from the body-mind problem -- for when it comes to the
>latter, as I see it, both causation and identity may be useful
>concepts, depending upon how they are applied.
I don't understand what you are asking. outside of the mind-body
problem, it is clear that you won't have an effect that is identical to
its cause. it's only regarding mind and brain that some philosophers
want desperately to say *both* that the mind is identical to the brain;
and, that the mind is an effect of the brain.
>>are you using 'causal' to refer to causation or constitution?
>But by my lights, neither of these claims justify claiming that "who
>and what we are is caused by our brain." That is to say, the causal
>chain ends in brain activity. We are not caused by but use our brain.
the relation between the experiencing I and its brain is the greater
mystery; but, for the purpose of deciding whether an effect can be
identical to its cause, let's take a simpler case: the afterimage.
is the afterimage identical to the 'tired retina' condition which causes
false signal to be sent to the brain? is the afterimage identical to
some other link in the causal chain?
>>Leibniz's Law (the Indiscernibility of Identicals) means that if two
>>things are identical they must have the same properties.
>Where property is defined as ? Diamonds and Coal are identical at a
>particle level, though the molecules may be arranged differently. Then
>there is the matter of value. There are any number of possible
>properties. How does one apply the law?
how to apply the LII can be a contentious topic.
I would not say that diamond and coal are identical at a particle level;
because, at a particle level, there is neither coal nor diamond; there
are only carbon atoms. does a carbon atom have a property of 'being in a
lump of coal' or 'being in a diamond'? I would say no.
a similar issue can arise regarding the location of an item. is the
location of a cow a property of the cow?
Joe
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Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware
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