[Wittrs] Constitution vs Causation
- From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 05:26:23 -0400
BruceD wrote:
>Joseph Polanik wrote:
>>I maintain that a causal relation in the sense used by physical
>>sciences can not be an identity relation because it would violate
>>Lebniz's Law.
>>consider a mixture of oxygen gas and hydrogen gas. ignite a spark and
>>the mixture of gases is transformed into H20 molecules. this is cause
>>and effect. is the mixture of gases identical to water? no.
>To look at them, touch them, taste them, of course water and gas are
>not identical. But, as a particle level, they are simply a different
>arrangement of atoms, i.e., identical in that sense.
would you pay for a diamond and accept a lump of coal? why not? they are
identical in the sense that, at the atomic level, they are both made of
carbon atoms.
>At times Stuart has entertained a comparable analogy. Bone marrow makes
>blood (causes blood to come about). Marrow and blood are as different
>as gas and water. But both are body stuff. Brain makes mind (causes it
>to come about). Mind is identical to brain in that it is the same
>stuff, and caused by brain in the sense that it produced by it.
Stuart is equivocating between causation and constitution, calling them
both causation.
>While I've spent months trying to show Stuart why this analogy fails
>conceptually, I'm still inclined to agree of the possibility of an
>identity and a causal relation holding between two things.
are you using 'causal' to refer to causation or constitution?
>Is it possible that my wording of the argument doesn't violate
>Leibniz's law but is not relevant to it?
in my opinion, not without redefining 'identical' and/or 'causation'.
Leibniz's Law (the Indiscernibility of Identicals) means that if two
things are identical they must have the same properties. in the case of
causation (real causation not the ersatz causation that is really
constitution), A has the property of being able to cause B. B lacks that
property.
Joe
--
Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware
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