[Wittrs] Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics
- From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:32:44 -0500
SWM wrote:
>Joseph Polanik wrote:
>>I undertook to show that your mechanistic, Dennett-based theory of
>>consciousness can't possibly be true unless von Neumann is wrong.
>Yes, you did. On that score I would say you haven't yet made the case.
how absurdly ironic this conversation has become!
for years now, you have been claiming that this or that person who
disagreed with you had latent dualistic tendencies; indeed, in another
recent post you accuse Bruce of 'implicit dualism'.
nevertheless, when I presented the von Neumann Interpretation of QM
(which is as overtly dualistic as one can get without actually
plagiarizing from Descartes scrapbook), you resist the suggestion that
the von Neumann Interpretation is incompatible with your mechanistic,
Dennett-based theory of consciousness.
>I don't see the negative implications in it for Dennett's model thus
>far, nor do I fnd your tweaking of von Neumann's thesis to alter his
>category II in terms of what is said to be included within it implied
>by his thesis. By itself, von Neumann's thesis seems to have no
>implications for Dennett's proposal as far as I can see at this point
>while your tweaked version strikes me as an effort to shoehorn an extra
>thesis into von Neumann's.
how exactly did I alter the contents of von Neumann's division II?
are you saying that I've included in division II something that von
Neumann excluded? if so, what do you say I added?
are you saying that I've excluded from division II something that von
Neumann included? if so, what do you say I subtracted?
>It is still worth exploring, of course, but now it comes down to
>understanding the Polanikian version which, as far as I can see, hinges
>on a move von Neumann doesn't make and also on a presumption of
>"metaphenomenal" phenomena.
what is the move that you think I make that von Neumann doesn't make?
I deny presuming that there are metaphenomenal phenomena. what did I
write that made you think otherwise?
--
Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware
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