Diane, I am definitely in favor of shelter dogs. Both of my guides came from shelters and most of my pets have as well. There are a lot of very excellent dogs that need a home. But with that said... you are really taking a gamble with a shelter dog, especially with an adult. There is no way to know exactly what breed you are getting. I have no problem with mixes. I think there is something to be said for natural selection and the healthiest surviving. However some breeds are more susceptible to certain temperament traits and health issues. I think having a complete picture of what you are working with will better prepare you for achieving a better outcome. then with adult dogs you have a whole new array of concerns because of socialization issues. I got Tia from a shelter at five weeks old. The information I was given was that she was a coonhound mix and would probably get to be 50 to 60 pounds. She was that size at 6 months old. She ended up being around 90 pounds. If I had known she was going to be that big I think things would have turned out differently. So I don't know what the answer is. I guess maybe I wish there were statistics on success rates among shelter dogs vs. specifically bred dogs turning out as guides. I don't know of anything like that though. Julie http://www.livingblind.com/eml Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr. Seuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "DIANNE B. PHELPS AND PRIMROSE" <d.bphelps@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker > Julie, > > Your thoughts and work on this issue are so interesting to me. I think one > of the reasons the schools don't do better at this is that perhaps, the > breed or breed combination does not produce a greater percentage of > successful guides which makes this all viable on a production basis. What > I > would like to see the schools consider is looking within the animal > shelters > to see if any dogs tere had the correct make-up to become a guide. In that > way, they could use possible other breeds. > > I have always been rather awe-struck by those who train their own dogs, > and > now, GDB is looking at having blind persons become trainers, an idea I > feel > is also a good one. It is just not the same when a sighted person puts on > a > blind fold because they can take it off when they get stuck. We cannot. > > Continued good luck to you and others who are training their own dogs. > > Dianne and Primrose > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie J." <jlcrane@xxxxxxxxxx> > To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:20 AM > Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker > > >> Jill, >> >> I have owner trained a lab mix. My best guess is that she is mixed with >> greyhound. This is just a guess based on her physical features and >> personality. In harness she doesn't like to be bothered much by people. >> Most often she will turn her head away when someone reaches to pet her. >> >> I have had to encourage her to be food motivated. When I first got her >> she >> really didn't care much for treats. She enjoys them now, but still is >> not >> overly food driven. We recently went to an Easter egg/candy hunt. The >> kids >> all immediately informed me that Belle was going to eat the candy off the >> ground and it was going to make her sick and on and on and on. Gotta >> love >> the kid drama! LOL I knew better. She didn't even sniff at the candy. >> >> I also do not have her stop at the up curb. I started training that way >> and >> realized very quickly that it was annoying. Now she will just hesitate a >> bit directly before the step up. Much smoother for us both. >> >> I love that everything she has been trained to do is a direct result of >> what >> works best for us. The middle man has been cut out, so to speak. For me >> owner training was what I needed to do. >> >> Do you have a particular breed in mind? >> >> Julie >> http://www.livingblind.com/eml >> Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter >> and >> those who matter don't mind. >> >> Dr. Seuss >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jill Gross" <jgross@xxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:27 AM >> Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker >> >> >>> Jo, I would guess that you probably like the idea of selecting your own >>> dog for training. I think that is the greatest factor for me. I would >>> like >>> to pick my breed based on my research and I would like find a dog witht >>> he >>> personality traits that I like in a service dog. I have always been very >>> disappointed in the very limited number of breeds utilized by most of >>> the >>> guide dog schools. I know many people who have labs as guides and they >>> are >>> thrilled with them. I don't particularly care for them and feel that >>> they >>> have some important traits that decrease there desirability as guides, >>> ie. >>> they are very social and they are extremely food oriented. There are so >>> many fabulous breeds out there and I have have never understood why some >>> of them have never been used by the schools. I know there is a small >>> school that uses vislas and Leader will use the occasional bouvier or >>> boxer. >>> >>> I "untrain" my guides to stop at the up-curb on street crossings. I do >>> most of my travelling in the city where people often drive wrecklessly. >>> I >>> want my butt and my dog's butt in the street as little as possible. I >>> have >>> always been good able knowing where the up-curbs are, so I find it safer >>> for us to get out of the street quickly. I have always trained my dogs >>> to >>> do other things, some that are practical and some that are fun. I have >>> also found that the dogs that are trained by the schools tend to be >>> unruly >>> in the house. I have had to do significant in-home training with all but >>> one of my dogs. I have often wondered how the nondog person who gets a >>> guide handles a guide who wrecks their house. >>> >>> Jill >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Jo Clayson wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What would you like to do with your dog that the dogs in schools are >>>> not >>>> trained for? >>>> >>>> Interesting question. I've never had a dog from a school, and though I >>>> know >>>> a few people personally that have, I'm not really familiar with >>>> specifically >>>> what behaviors are taught, or not taught. >>>> >>>> Things I teach my dogs: >>>> Tricks: shake hands, roll over, choosing the correct hand in response >>>> to >>>> a >>>> question, speak, etc. Both my dogs and I have fun with these. >>>> Teaching >>>> a >>>> trick is a good way for me to try out a different training method....if >>>> I >>>> really goof up and my dog doesn't do a perfect "play dead" it's not >>>> potentially life threatening for me or my dog. Also, if my dog has >>>> been >>>> distracted and needs to focus back on me, tricks are often a good way >>>> to >>>> get >>>> that focus back. Simply because they are tricks and fun, there isn't >>>> the >>>> tension in my voice that so easily communicates to my dog, like when I >>>> might >>>> tell her to "leave it" , "quiet" or "sit". A dog that does a few >>>> tricks >>>> can >>>> also delight other people, and help those who are hesitant or a bit >>>> fearful >>>> around dogs. >>>> >>>> Search & rescue: though we are not part of a search team, I want my >>>> dogs >>>> and >>>> I to be able to work together in this way. I live on 29 acres of land >>>> in >>>> a >>>> rather remote area with thousands of acres of undeveloped land >>>> adjacent. >>>> Should a guest here, or a hunter get lost, or should I be injured and >>>> folks >>>> are looking for me, I want my dogs to be able to assist in the initial >>>> search. >>>> >>>> Agility - we don't compete, but do this at home for fun, physical >>>> conditioning, and for building teamwork, self-control, and physical >>>> skills. >>>> >>>> "go to the bathroom" - take me to a public restroom . For a dog with a >>>> keen >>>> sense of smell, this seems to be a fairly easy task. >>>> >>>> Find my stuff: When we are away from home I may have a duffle bag, >>>> back >>>> pack, jacket , bucket of tools, etc that I set down. Usually I know >>>> where >>>> they are, but sometimes I forget, or am "bleary brained" with chemical >>>> exposure and it's handy to have my dog take me to my stuff. >>>> >>>> Go to the car: as I don't drive, and ride with many different people, >>>> and >>>> some of the families have more than one vehicle, I sometimes can't >>>> remember >>>> what vehicle I'm looking for or where it is parked. Kita does fairly >>>> well >>>> already in small parking lots. Zoomer could even find the vehicle in a >>>> very >>>> large lot. It's also been handy for the driver a few times who forgot >>>> where >>>> they parked! >>>> >>>> There are probably others. Often my dogs have figured out something >>>> on >>>> their own that is helpful to me, so I reward and encourage it. >>>> >>>> Jo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >