Tess Cumbie, TN-Birders: Tess, since you and I are personal friends from birding in the Northeast Tennessee area and enjoy mutual memberships in a bird club, I know you will understand me and know that I am not being critical of you. I know you are well intended in saying that persons who are banders (I have been for 35 years), pish birds and use tapes now have a chance to speak up for what we do. I do all of the above and a lot more. I am not going to speak up for what we do. That has been done over and over for decades. TN-Birder Sheb Marsh,of Paducah, KY, has exercised a right to an opinion about all of the above. Sheb has the right to hold whatever opinion. I am not going to argue about that. And, I am not going to debate the merits of holding, banding, disturbing, using tape calls, etc. etc. etc. Sheb has now told us all what we must stop doing! Sheb has told us what Sheb believes to be wrong with all of that and what is ethical about it. Sheb has said that even Sheb, like myself and everyone else, can stand a little self reflection and revamping of our ethical view of all that is done. I keep using Sheb's name, not out of disrespect, but because I don't know whether Sheb is a male or female. If I knew, I would write he or she as would be more appropriate. It doesn't make any difference whether Sheb is male or female. It just makes a difference in how I word this. There may be another better way but I can't think of it. Sheb has had space on TN-Birds to put all of this before everyone else to think about. Tape recordings and pishing and banding have been the subject of debate by those who know what they are talking about, those who are just discovering the subjects and those who know almost nothing but still spew opinions on every listserver on the internet. The subject had been worn out since before most people had computers. As one small but important example: yes, Bob Sargent has allowed hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of persons to hold birds which he has banded. There are wonderful accounts of all this published everywhere for interested birders to read about. You wouldn't have to be hatched out your egg but a few short hours to learn that. Bob makes a massive impact on education by doing that. He is a champion of that activity. He is held in reverence for what he does with banding and what he has learned. He is not held that way by chicks who have just hatched and opened their eyes to the world. He is held in that great esteem by people of many varied and informed and learned views of ornithology, birds, and just good, solid and valuable conservation and good science. I and many others have read so many messages on so many lists that we don't worry about good and wonderful people like Sheb Marsh expressing an opinion. We just hate to see the same old banding, pishing and tape recording issue explode into a mail server choked with arguments, informed, uninformed or as poor as this one. Tess, thanks for opening the door for me to say this. Like many more on this list, I read carefully every word of Sheb Marsh's posting. I thought about it. I thought about what was good and what was any other way. Now I have that stored away and I'll move on in life. I am not asking that comments with new views and similar thoughtful pieces such as Sheb's not appear on TN-Birds. I am just asking that everyone else do as I say and not as I do. Just don't sink us in the quicksand. Give us something sturdy for our footing so that we may be truly informed. Let's go birding..... Wallace Coffey Owner TN-Birds Bristol, TN =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 =========================================================