[THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms

Scientific Wild A $$ Guess.

Anyway if I can get my scripts done ever you will be able to have backup
files of a set of apps and "push" them into a new farm. Then I will have
a script that you can type in an app name and either give it a list of
servers OR it will prompt for each server in the farm and this sets up
those servers for that app. Anyway if you really want DR think long and
hard about it. Shifting users around a ton of locations SOUNDS great.
But the farm is only part of it. I mean will there be enough pip,
redundant pipe,  how will they get to it, where are the NFuse/WI sites,
are they setup for the load of additional users. A ton goes into this. =20

HEY! Or hire me and I can come out and Help, this sounds fun :-)

Later guys.
Ron

Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP, Windows Server=20
=20
RapidApp, Chicago
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:12 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms

The other benefit we saw from a global farm was the ability to move
users
around in it far more easily in a disaster situation.
The client is keen on a single point of administration, but if the DR
replication nightmare is going to outweigh that then.. why would we
bother...

I am thinking, more and more for multi-farms...

Any views of the maintenance window issue, i.e. with global farm, how
could we
make farm-wide settings changes when there would never be a point when
all our
farm users are asleep?

Whassa SWAG??

Brian=20

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: 23 April 2004 15:02
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms


I know of one with a Single farm with about 300 servers spread around in
three datacenters. They have good network connections between the three
and
still monitor that DS replication like a hawk.

I don't know of anyone with a Single farm and more than half a dozen
sites
with DS's being replicated to all.  In the future licenses is what you
will
worry about, not farms farms are becoming more insignificant. No reason
to
have a global farm in the next version unless the servers are all
admin'd by
the same group or centralized totally. Having 10 or more sites spanning
the
world I would opt for unique farms, Share licensing, and ship off the DS
of
each farm to another location as a backup/DR plan.

Now of course I don't know your goals or requirements. This is just a
Ron
Oglesby SWAG.

Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
=20
RapidApp, Chicago
Mobile 815 325-7618
Office 312 372-7188
e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Lilley, Brian
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:44 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms

When you say 'a relatively flat DB', do you mean that zone wide settings
are
not available?

If zone wide settings are not available, I would have no maintenance
window
for farm wide settings changes..any thoughts on this appreciated.

Even with a master copy, what kind of things could you check on an
hourly/daily basis to ensure  the integrity of the dbase .... dscheck?
Can
this tool be trusted?

I guess a disaster recovery datastore could exist with the same licences
applied, same apps published etc...hhmmmm I might as well have multiple
farms?

Does anyone know of a site with global single farm?

Thanks once again,  I'll remember you at Christmas of course.

Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: 23 April 2004 14:27
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms


I've been working with PS 3 since October. While it does have preferred
zones for load-balancing and stuff like that, it's still a relatively
flat DB.

DB corruption is something that I would be highly worried about. The
fact that the DB is all binary and cryptic doesn't help. However, if you
choose only one location to be the "master," (i.e. only write to one
location) then you should in theory always have a good Data Store if a
remote one gets clobbered.

Also, if you decide that you absolutely must have one farm, then make
sure you minimize the intra-farm communication traffic. (kind of a
different issue than the DS, but something to think about_ PS3 comes a
long way in that it doesn't replicate every
logon/logoff/connect/disconnect between all data collectors. And, if you
don't replicate printer drivers and you have fast connections between
your sites, I could probably be convinced that a world wide farm in PS3
was okay.

As for my site, Google puts those ads there automagically based on
keywords on the site. I guess maybe I say my own name too much, and
that's why the John Madden sports games get linked. :-)

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable
videos, and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Lilley, Brian
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:04 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms

Hi Brian,

Thanks for that.  I had previously downloaded that chapter from your
site...whilst thinking, hhhmmm, that was quite convenient, so many
thanks for
that.

Just to balance things up, I have in my possesion, your new TS2003
book...

What I was trying to identify by posting on the list was, how people
felt
about single global farms and whether they viewed the data store as a
single
point of failure despite employing high availability resilient database
platforms.  I'm not too worried about having the DataStore constantly
on-line,
but rather ensuring that the integrity of the data is retained.  Does
replication cause corruption type problems?=3D20



The problem I saw with a global farm was the lack of maintenance window
for
farmwide settings, i.e. whilst London was awake, Australia were asleep
and
vice-versa.. rumour is that PS3 splits it into zone wide settings.. do
you
happen to know if this is true?  Without the PS3 documentation, its
difficult
to put together a design.

Also, whilst on your site, there was a lot of adverts for the Madden
games.
Is there any link there or is that just a coincidence?

thanks, Brian

PS. I also bought the Citrix 2003 offical guide to building Enterprise
Access
Suites, and there was very little DataStore design!??!




-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: 23 April 2004 13:52
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms


The MetaFrame XP Network Design chapter from my book covers all of this,
and conveniently, it's one of the chapters that I've pulled out into a
stand alone white paper on my site.

Go to http://www.brianmadden.com and click on "technical stuff" in the
yellow menu bar, and then click on "white papers."

On another note, I can say that in general, people don't replicate a
single data store across the ocean. But it can be done. (Although there
is soooo much that goes into this, which I cover fully in this paper.)

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable
videos, and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:22 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms

Difficult one.

Your main worry seems to be the resilience of the datastore. Most of the
=3D3D3D
problems I've seen related to WAN and replication traffic between SQL
ser=3D3D3D
vers, and to the way the SQL server are installed. Inherently, you are
go=3D3D3D
ing to come up with a different set of challenges with your setup.

I think there may be some clear advantages to you of waiting for Citrix
P=3D3D3D
resentation Server 3, as this has some new features that you will want
to=3D3D3D
 consider when you design the farm(s), and the datastore sort of
quesions=3D3D3D
 that you're asking will be quite relevant.

My next step would be to read Brian Madden's book (which came through
the=3D3D3D
 post this morning - horray!) and work out what options and limitations
t=3D3D3D
here are with Metaframe XP as it stands. One of the things I think I'd
ne=3D3D3D
ed to brush up on first is Zones, as I think they will be very relevant,
=3D3D3D
but I can't for the life in me remember what you need to use them for. I
=3D3D3D
also think that the number of farms and datastores you need will depend
o=3D3D3D
n a lot of factors, BUT a single farm may well be easier to manage.
Again=3D3D3D
, I'd have a lot of reading to do before I'd actually commit to
recommend=3D3D3D
ing that.

Regards,

Jeremy Thomas


-----Original Message-----
From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: vrijdag 23 april 2004 13:08
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms


Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for your response.  I have tried to direct the corporate strategy
=3D3D3D
down
a mainframe centric view.  There, unfortunately, is no opportunity for
datacentre consolidation due to the spread of the user population.

Its initial driver was to provide a remote access solution for partners
a=3D3D3D
nd
customers.  As with most corporates over the past few years, the
technolo=3D3D3D
gy
has spread and is now seen as a serious computing platform.  The shift
in
thinking hasn't quite happened yet, but is certainly moving in that
direc=3D3D3D
tion.

The Citrix access suite is not seen as a desktop replacement. There is a
=3D3D3D
70/30
split between published apps and desktops, respectively.  And in some
cas=3D3D3D
es a
mix of the two, i.e. a published desktop running applications  via ica
cl=3D3D3D
ient
published by a further Citrix server.

How fragile is the Data Store? Would you trust it for a global farm?
How=3D3D3D
 many
people out there have global farms?  Is the moon made of cheese?

best regards, Brian


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy
Sent: 22 April 2004 08:48
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms


Brian,

You say Consolidation. Are you going to consider datacentre
consolidation=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
 as well?

I gather if they're upgrading from 1.8, it implies a major project to
rep=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
lace all their current Citrix servers with new ones, new OS, etc, so
it's=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
 an opportunity to do some serious consolidation as well (though it
depen=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
ds what applications they run), reduce the number of datacentres,
increas=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
e security, improve manageability, reduce costs, etc.

Citrix =3D3D3D3D3D access and access =3D3D3D3D3D Citrix. So Citrix would =
=3D3D
position
its=3D3D3D
elf =3D3D3D3D
as the platform through which all users access all corporate data.

Are the citrix servers considered part of the office infrastructure
(like=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
 desktop replacements) of part of the application (like single published
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
application per farm). Also, what is the roadmap of the company? Where
ar=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
e they going to go with datacentre management, desktops, etc. over the
ne=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
xt 2-3 years?

IMO, there is no right way to design a farm unless you have spoken to
the=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
 CIO first and got a good idea of where the company is taking it's IT
inf=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
rastructure, so to consider answering the question correctly, we'd need
t=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
o know this first. Then we can talk technical.

Regards,

Jeremy Thomas


-----Original Message-----
From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: dinsdag 20 april 2004 20:22
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] global or multi regional citrix farms



Hi all,

Bit of an urgent request here... I need you guys that have designed big
C=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
itrix
farms to give me the benefit of your experience, Brian.. Jim et al...
you=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
 know
who you are....

I have a customer who currently has around 50 1.8 farms dotted around
the
globe.  They are looking to consolidate into a Presentation Server III
fa=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
rm.
The intial thoughts were to simply have one global farm with a highly
resilient datastore replicated around the globe.

My concern with the single global farm firstly, is the ability to
maintai=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
n the
integrity and availability of the Datastore.  The client are looking at
O=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
racle
on Sun kit for the Datastore.  Despite their expertise on high
availabili=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
ty
database solutions, I am still aware that the datastore can be easily
corrupted, i.e. running chfarm whilst the CMC is open...

My question is this... what would you advise for a 20,000 user Citrix
far=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
m
split approx. equally across some 10 countries?

Are farm failover solutions available?



Thanks in advance...

B



=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D=
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3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D
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3D
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3=3D
D=3D3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D3D
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are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be
secure.
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D=
3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3
D=3D
3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3
D=3D3D
3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3=
D=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D=
3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3
D=3D
3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3
D=3D3D
3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3=
D=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D=
3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3
D=3D
3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3
D=3D3D
3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3=
D=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D

********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=3D3D3D20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=3D3D3D20
Starting at $199!=3D3D3D20
http://www.neoware.com=3D3D3D20
**********************************************************
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*=3D3D3D
***
Disclaimer:=3D3D3D20
This electronic transmission and any files attached to it are
strictly=3D3D3D20
confidential and intended solely for the addressee. If you are =3D
not=3D3D3D20
the intended addressee, you must not disclose, copy or take any
action in reliance of this transmission. If you have received =3D
this=3D3D3D20
transmission in error, please notify the sender by return and delete
the transmission.  Although the sender endeavors to maintain a
computer virus free network, the sender does not warrant that this
transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any =
damages=3D3D3D20
resulting from any virus transmitted.=3D3D3D20
Thank You.
************************************************************************
*=3D3D3D
***
********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=3D3D20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=3D3D20
Starting at $199!=3D3D20
http://www.neoware.com=3D3D20
**********************************************************
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********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=3D20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=3D20
Starting at $199!=3D20
http://www.neoware.com=3D20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
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=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you
received
this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message
was
misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until
they
are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be
secure.
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D

********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=3D20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=3D20
Starting at $199!=3D20
http://www.neoware.com=3D20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
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set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
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********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you
received
this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message
was
misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until
they
are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be
secure.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D

********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
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********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you
received
this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message
was
misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until
they
are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be
secure.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm
********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable, 
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free. 
Starting at $199! 
http://www.neoware.com 
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
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