[THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
- From: "Lilley, Brian" <brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx>
- To: "'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:43:45 +0100
When you say 'a relatively flat DB', do you mean that zone wide settings are
not available?
If zone wide settings are not available, I would have no maintenance window
for farm wide settings changes..any thoughts on this appreciated.
Even with a master copy, what kind of things could you check on an
hourly/daily basis to ensure the integrity of the dbase .... dscheck? Can
this tool be trusted?
I guess a disaster recovery datastore could exist with the same licences
applied, same apps published etc...hhmmmm I might as well have multiple farms?
Does anyone know of a site with global single farm?
Thanks once again, I'll remember you at Christmas of course.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: 23 April 2004 14:27
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
I've been working with PS 3 since October. While it does have preferred
zones for load-balancing and stuff like that, it's still a relatively
flat DB.
DB corruption is something that I would be highly worried about. The
fact that the DB is all binary and cryptic doesn't help. However, if you
choose only one location to be the "master," (i.e. only write to one
location) then you should in theory always have a good Data Store if a
remote one gets clobbered.
Also, if you decide that you absolutely must have one farm, then make
sure you minimize the intra-farm communication traffic. (kind of a
different issue than the DS, but something to think about_ PS3 comes a
long way in that it doesn't replicate every
logon/logoff/connect/disconnect between all data collectors. And, if you
don't replicate printer drivers and you have fast connections between
your sites, I could probably be convinced that a world wide farm in PS3
was okay.
As for my site, Google puts those ads there automagically based on
keywords on the site. I guess maybe I say my own name too much, and
that's why the John Madden sports games get linked. :-)
Brian
Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable
videos, and product reviews.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Lilley, Brian
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:04 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
Hi Brian,
Thanks for that. I had previously downloaded that chapter from your
site...whilst thinking, hhhmmm, that was quite convenient, so many
thanks for
that.
Just to balance things up, I have in my possesion, your new TS2003
book...
What I was trying to identify by posting on the list was, how people
felt
about single global farms and whether they viewed the data store as a
single
point of failure despite employing high availability resilient database
platforms. I'm not too worried about having the DataStore constantly
on-line,
but rather ensuring that the integrity of the data is retained. Does
replication cause corruption type problems?=20
The problem I saw with a global farm was the lack of maintenance window
for
farmwide settings, i.e. whilst London was awake, Australia were asleep
and
vice-versa.. rumour is that PS3 splits it into zone wide settings.. do
you
happen to know if this is true? Without the PS3 documentation, its
difficult
to put together a design.
Also, whilst on your site, there was a lot of adverts for the Madden
games.
Is there any link there or is that just a coincidence?
thanks, Brian
PS. I also bought the Citrix 2003 offical guide to building Enterprise
Access
Suites, and there was very little DataStore design!??!
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: 23 April 2004 13:52
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
The MetaFrame XP Network Design chapter from my book covers all of this,
and conveniently, it's one of the chapters that I've pulled out into a
stand alone white paper on my site.
Go to http://www.brianmadden.com and click on "technical stuff" in the
yellow menu bar, and then click on "white papers."
On another note, I can say that in general, people don't replicate a
single data store across the ocean. But it can be done. (Although there
is soooo much that goes into this, which I cover fully in this paper.)
Brian
Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable
videos, and product reviews.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:22 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
Difficult one.
Your main worry seems to be the resilience of the datastore. Most of the
=3D3D
problems I've seen related to WAN and replication traffic between SQL
ser=3D3D
vers, and to the way the SQL server are installed. Inherently, you are
go=3D3D
ing to come up with a different set of challenges with your setup.
I think there may be some clear advantages to you of waiting for Citrix
P=3D3D
resentation Server 3, as this has some new features that you will want
to=3D3D
consider when you design the farm(s), and the datastore sort of
quesions=3D3D
that you're asking will be quite relevant.
My next step would be to read Brian Madden's book (which came through
the=3D3D
post this morning - horray!) and work out what options and limitations
t=3D3D
here are with Metaframe XP as it stands. One of the things I think I'd
ne=3D3D
ed to brush up on first is Zones, as I think they will be very relevant,
=3D3D
but I can't for the life in me remember what you need to use them for. I
=3D3D
also think that the number of farms and datastores you need will depend
o=3D3D
n a lot of factors, BUT a single farm may well be easier to manage.
Again=3D3D
, I'd have a lot of reading to do before I'd actually commit to
recommend=3D3D
ing that.
Regards,
Jeremy Thomas
-----Original Message-----
From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: vrijdag 23 april 2004 13:08
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for your response. I have tried to direct the corporate strategy
=3D3D
down
a mainframe centric view. There, unfortunately, is no opportunity for
datacentre consolidation due to the spread of the user population.
Its initial driver was to provide a remote access solution for partners
a=3D3D
nd
customers. As with most corporates over the past few years, the
technolo=3D3D
gy
has spread and is now seen as a serious computing platform. The shift
in
thinking hasn't quite happened yet, but is certainly moving in that
direc=3D3D
tion.
The Citrix access suite is not seen as a desktop replacement. There is a
=3D3D
70/30
split between published apps and desktops, respectively. And in some
cas=3D3D
es a
mix of the two, i.e. a published desktop running applications via ica
cl=3D3D
ient
published by a further Citrix server.
How fragile is the Data Store? Would you trust it for a global farm?
How=3D3D
many
people out there have global farms? Is the moon made of cheese?
best regards, Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy
Sent: 22 April 2004 08:48
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms
Brian,
You say Consolidation. Are you going to consider datacentre
consolidation=3D3D
=3D3D3D
as well?
I gather if they're upgrading from 1.8, it implies a major project to
rep=3D3D
=3D3D3D
lace all their current Citrix servers with new ones, new OS, etc, so
it's=3D3D
=3D3D3D
an opportunity to do some serious consolidation as well (though it
depen=3D3D
=3D3D3D
ds what applications they run), reduce the number of datacentres,
increas=3D3D
=3D3D3D
e security, improve manageability, reduce costs, etc.
Citrix =3D3D3D3D access and access =3D3D3D3D Citrix. So Citrix would =3D
position
its=3D3D
elf =3D3D3D
as the platform through which all users access all corporate data.
Are the citrix servers considered part of the office infrastructure
(like=3D3D
=3D3D3D
desktop replacements) of part of the application (like single published
=3D3D
=3D3D3D
application per farm). Also, what is the roadmap of the company? Where
ar=3D3D
=3D3D3D
e they going to go with datacentre management, desktops, etc. over the
ne=3D3D
=3D3D3D
xt 2-3 years?
IMO, there is no right way to design a farm unless you have spoken to
the=3D3D
=3D3D3D
CIO first and got a good idea of where the company is taking it's IT
inf=3D3D
=3D3D3D
rastructure, so to consider answering the question correctly, we'd need
t=3D3D
=3D3D3D
o know this first. Then we can talk technical.
Regards,
Jeremy Thomas
-----Original Message-----
From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: dinsdag 20 april 2004 20:22
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] global or multi regional citrix farms
Hi all,
Bit of an urgent request here... I need you guys that have designed big
C=3D3D
=3D3D3D
itrix
farms to give me the benefit of your experience, Brian.. Jim et al...
you=3D3D
=3D3D3D
know
who you are....
I have a customer who currently has around 50 1.8 farms dotted around
the
globe. They are looking to consolidate into a Presentation Server III
fa=3D3D
=3D3D3D
rm.
The intial thoughts were to simply have one global farm with a highly
resilient datastore replicated around the globe.
My concern with the single global farm firstly, is the ability to
maintai=3D3D
=3D3D3D
n the
integrity and availability of the Datastore. The client are looking at
O=3D3D
=3D3D3D
racle
on Sun kit for the Datastore. Despite their expertise on high
availabili=3D3D
=3D3D3D
ty
database solutions, I am still aware that the datastore can be easily
corrupted, i.e. running chfarm whilst the CMC is open...
My question is this... what would you advise for a 20,000 user Citrix
far=3D3D
=3D3D3D
m
split approx. equally across some 10 countries?
Are farm failover solutions available?
Thanks in advance...
B
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D=
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secure.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm
********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.
Starting at $199!
http://www.neoware.com
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm
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==============================================================================
********************************************************
This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.
Starting at $199!
http://www.neoware.com
**********************************************************
Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at:
http://thin.net/links.cfm
***********************************************************
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link:
http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm
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