Hi Brian, Thanks for that. I had previously downloaded that chapter from your site...whilst thinking, hhhmmm, that was quite convenient, so many thanks for that. Just to balance things up, I have in my possesion, your new TS2003 book... What I was trying to identify by posting on the list was, how people felt about single global farms and whether they viewed the data store as a single point of failure despite employing high availability resilient database platforms. I'm not too worried about having the DataStore constantly on-line, but rather ensuring that the integrity of the data is retained. Does replication cause corruption type problems? The problem I saw with a global farm was the lack of maintenance window for farmwide settings, i.e. whilst London was awake, Australia were asleep and vice-versa.. rumour is that PS3 splits it into zone wide settings.. do you happen to know if this is true? Without the PS3 documentation, its difficult to put together a design. Also, whilst on your site, there was a lot of adverts for the Madden games. Is there any link there or is that just a coincidence? thanks, Brian PS. I also bought the Citrix 2003 offical guide to building Enterprise Access Suites, and there was very little DataStore design!??! -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Brian Madden Sent: 23 April 2004 13:52 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms The MetaFrame XP Network Design chapter from my book covers all of this, and conveniently, it's one of the chapters that I've pulled out into a stand alone white paper on my site. Go to http://www.brianmadden.com and click on "technical stuff" in the yellow menu bar, and then click on "white papers." On another note, I can say that in general, people don't replicate a single data store across the ocean. But it can be done. (Although there is soooo much that goes into this, which I cover fully in this paper.) Brian Brian Madden brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx +1.202.302.3657 Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable videos, and product reviews. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:22 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms Difficult one. Your main worry seems to be the resilience of the datastore. Most of the =3D problems I've seen related to WAN and replication traffic between SQL ser=3D vers, and to the way the SQL server are installed. Inherently, you are go=3D ing to come up with a different set of challenges with your setup. I think there may be some clear advantages to you of waiting for Citrix P=3D resentation Server 3, as this has some new features that you will want to=3D consider when you design the farm(s), and the datastore sort of quesions=3D that you're asking will be quite relevant. My next step would be to read Brian Madden's book (which came through the=3D post this morning - horray!) and work out what options and limitations t=3D here are with Metaframe XP as it stands. One of the things I think I'd ne=3D ed to brush up on first is Zones, as I think they will be very relevant, =3D but I can't for the life in me remember what you need to use them for. I =3D also think that the number of farms and datastores you need will depend o=3D n a lot of factors, BUT a single farm may well be easier to manage. Again=3D , I'd have a lot of reading to do before I'd actually commit to recommend=3D ing that. Regards, Jeremy Thomas -----Original Message----- From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx] Sent: vrijdag 23 april 2004 13:08 To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms Hi Jeremy, Thanks for your response. I have tried to direct the corporate strategy =3D down a mainframe centric view. There, unfortunately, is no opportunity for datacentre consolidation due to the spread of the user population. Its initial driver was to provide a remote access solution for partners a=3D nd customers. As with most corporates over the past few years, the technolo=3D gy has spread and is now seen as a serious computing platform. The shift in thinking hasn't quite happened yet, but is certainly moving in that direc=3D tion. The Citrix access suite is not seen as a desktop replacement. There is a =3D 70/30 split between published apps and desktops, respectively. And in some cas=3D es a mix of the two, i.e. a published desktop running applications via ica cl=3D ient published by a further Citrix server. How fragile is the Data Store? Would you trust it for a global farm? How=3D many people out there have global farms? Is the moon made of cheese? best regards, Brian -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy Sent: 22 April 2004 08:48 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: global or multi regional citrix farms Brian, You say Consolidation. Are you going to consider datacentre consolidation=3D =3D3D as well? I gather if they're upgrading from 1.8, it implies a major project to rep=3D =3D3D lace all their current Citrix servers with new ones, new OS, etc, so it's=3D =3D3D an opportunity to do some serious consolidation as well (though it depen=3D =3D3D ds what applications they run), reduce the number of datacentres, increas=3D =3D3D e security, improve manageability, reduce costs, etc. Citrix =3D3D3D access and access =3D3D3D Citrix. So Citrix would = position its=3D elf =3D3D as the platform through which all users access all corporate data. Are the citrix servers considered part of the office infrastructure (like=3D =3D3D desktop replacements) of part of the application (like single published =3D =3D3D application per farm). Also, what is the roadmap of the company? Where ar=3D =3D3D e they going to go with datacentre management, desktops, etc. over the ne=3D =3D3D xt 2-3 years? IMO, there is no right way to design a farm unless you have spoken to the=3D =3D3D CIO first and got a good idea of where the company is taking it's IT inf=3D =3D3D rastructure, so to consider answering the question correctly, we'd need t=3D =3D3D o know this first. Then we can talk technical. Regards, Jeremy Thomas -----Original Message----- From: Lilley, Brian [mailto:brian.lilley@xxxxxxxx] Sent: dinsdag 20 april 2004 20:22 To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] global or multi regional citrix farms Hi all, Bit of an urgent request here... I need you guys that have designed big C=3D =3D3D itrix farms to give me the benefit of your experience, Brian.. Jim et al... you=3D =3D3D know who you are.... I have a customer who currently has around 50 1.8 farms dotted around the globe. They are looking to consolidate into a Presentation Server III fa=3D =3D3D rm. The intial thoughts were to simply have one global farm with a highly resilient datastore replicated around the globe. My concern with the single global farm firstly, is the ability to maintai=3D =3D3D n the integrity and availability of the Datastore. The client are looking at O=3D =3D3D racle on Sun kit for the Datastore. Despite their expertise on high availabili=3D =3D3D ty database solutions, I am still aware that the datastore can be easily corrupted, i.e. running chfarm whilst the CMC is open... My question is this... what would you advise for a 20,000 user Citrix far=3D =3D3D m split approx. equally across some 10 countries? Are farm failover solutions available? Thanks in advance... 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