[THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense

Since you bring up the subject of international patent law, I can tell you
what was our understanding at the time that I was CEO of RTO. The deal was
that you could file a provisional patent in the U.S.A. This locked in your
effective date in the USA and all countries that participated in the
multi-lateral patent agreements at the time. You then had a year to file
your real patent. It took two more years for it to get granted, with an
effective date of the filing of the provisional patent. If my memory serves
me correctly the provisional date was sometime in early 2000, which was
three years before AppSense shipped Optimizer. So, it is pretty unlikely
that AppSense filed earlier in the UK since they did not know about the
existence of such technology until they saw the RTO product. Note that it is
possible that our understanding was incorrect, and that the laws have
changed since then.

On the question of why AppSense is sold more in the UK than in the US, it is
pretty simple. AppSense is an outgrowth of a UK Citrix VAR and they have
their roots in the UK. They really never quite figured out that the US
market is different than the UK market in terms of how it works. They got
some traction early on, and then when Citrix chose RTO for memory
optimization and Aurema for CPU optimization AppSense took a big hit in the
USA and pretty much folded their US operations. In my opinion they have done
a nice job of reinventing themselves around lock down since then.

Cheers,

Bernd Harzog
VP Business Development
ProactiveWatch
www.proactivewatch.com
bharzog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
770-475-4249

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
Of Malcolm Bruton
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:43 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense

I guess another angle of this is if Appsense did invent it first in
another county (ie the UK) and has the patent for it in that country
what's happens then.  Not a patent law expert but seems a bit
crappy....Maybe that is why Appsense seems to be sold more in UK than
anything else.  Be interesting to see if/when patents were filed in what
country and by whom....

Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Adam.Baum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 08 January 2007 18:09
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense

I am not sure I agree with you on the legal stuff Bernd.  Remember eBay
lost a patent lawsuit where the plaintiff asked for an injuction over
patent usage.  Upon review, the Supreme Court basically said that the
lower
courts should look at other factors before going with an injunction.  In
light of this, all that would probably happen is that Appsense (and
others)
would probably pay to license the technology.

adam





             "Bernd Harzog"

             <berndh@mindsprin

             g.com>
To
             Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

             thin-bounce@freel
cc
             ists.org


Subject
                                       [THIN] Re: TSCALE or Appsense

             01/07/2007 09:56

             AM





             Please respond to

             thin@xxxxxxxxxxxx

                     g









Hi Angela,

Some up front disclosure before I offer my opinion. I used to be the CEO
of
RTO Software, and personally did the deal to OEM the memory management
features of TScale to Citrix, which are now the memory optimization
features
of CPS 4. So, before you buy either product, enable this feature on one
of
your servers and see what it does.

Another word of caution. RTO holds the patent for dynamic DLL rebasing
(the
technical term for moving the code pages of the DLL's that comprise an
application around so that they can be shared instead of having two
copies
of the code pages for each user). Since RTO has licensed this technology
and
the patent to Citrix, Citrix is now a holder of the patent as well.
Appsense
are remarketing DLL rebasing in violation of this patent. All RTO or
Citrix
have to do is file suit, and they will get an injunction that forces
AppSense to stop shipping Optimizer in the States (countries other than
the
USA are a different story). So, I would suggest that you not buy
AppSense
for the DLL remapping since you can get that legally for free as a part
of
CPS 4.0. If you want to buy AppSense for the other memory management
features that Rick Mack alluded to, those are not covered by the patent
and
you are safe.

Cheers,

Bernd Harzog
VP Business Development
ProactiveWatch
www.proactivewatch.com
bharzog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
770-475-4249

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf
Of Angela Smith
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 4:43 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] TSCALE or Appsense

Hi

Im tossing up between buying either TScale or Appsense and was wondering
what the majority of people are using and what their experiences have
been.
Ive heard good things about both products.  My main issue is that I need
to
tune memory / swap usage and both products supposedly do this.

Thanks

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