[TechAssist] Re: 220v: End of Discussion
- From: "J Silverman" <greentron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Could you measure the R and give us the number so we can calculate the
current?
Jerry Silverman
Greentron Inc
4 Newland Ave
Greenville SC 29609
864 232 3889
Fax 271 2080
mailto:greentron@xxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Batchelor" <jbc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 10:02 AM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v: End of Discussion
>
> If the voltage is higher the current will be higher. I = E / R
>
> Joe Batchelor CET TX-80
>
> 12/21/02 7:16:08 AM, "Vilhelm Boor" <villyboor@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > . . . Again I have to come back shocked at the lack of knowledge
displayed by some. . . . .
> > Oh dear what did they teach you at school. . . . .
> >> Voltage does not kill current does. It follows if the voltage is higher
the current will be lower.
> >>. . . .
>
>
> >>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002 01:01:27
> >> Electric Medic wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Art:
> >>>
> >>>I think you know what I mean. I said 220vac, but 240vac was what I
meant. I
> >>>just followed the "Voltage" quoted in the subject line of the thread,
which
> >>>I did not start. And many layman call 110 for short I guess. Picking on
> >>>close numbers just stirs controversy. But to keep it "Exact" we will
say
> >>>240. But even you should have got the jest. I did not know the fellow
was
> >>>from the West Indies since I started seeing this thread after the
subject
> >>>line was changed twice. I do have a question for you: Are you the
"Great
> >>>One" that must decide when a thread ends. We are all here to learn and
help
> >>>each other and I have tried to help many over the years on this and
other
> >>>forums. I have the Thank Yous in my inbox to prove it. I resent the few
on
> >>>here that feel the need to disrupt that with striking out against
another.
> >>>Whom decides what is interesting to a huge membership as this, just
you?
> >>>Please.
> >>>
> >>>Perry Bower
> >>>Electric Medic
> >>>"It's Cheaper to Keep Her"
> >>>http://www.electricmedic.com
> >>>Check out the Electronic Repair Screensaver We created. More Images to
come!
> >>>To download these Collections you must first install the Eyetide
Viewer:
>
>>>http://www.eyetide.com/download/?s=O3OfmSLHXygGHCv1W6Gz3Bgjtq3DNNMNdcKsYS
VGC
> >>>"We're Number One Where it Really Counts, With our Customers"
> >>>3850 Washington Road Suite 5b
> >>>Martinez, Georgia 30907
> >>>Phone: 706-8MEDIC4 (863-3424)
> >>>Phone: 706-863-3474
> >>>Fax: 706-863-2316
> >>>mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>"WE REPAIR WITH CARE"
> >>>
> >>>SERVICE CENTERS PLEASE READ!!
> >>>1. Are you currently backed up or over-loaded?
> >>>2. Are you short a tech or have one on vacation?
> >>>3. Do you need help with a very difficult repair?
> >>>4. Would you like to make money jobbing the work out?
> >>>5. Would you like to ship out less profitable products so you can
repair
> >>>others?
> >>>If you answered Yes to any of the above questions, Checkout these
websites:
> >>>http://www.electricmedic.com/salesa.htm
> >>>or
> >>>http://www.electricmedic.com/shipping.htm
> >>>
> >>>Factory Trained Authorized Service Center For: APEX, Fisher, GE,
KEC/KTV,
> >>>Konka, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips Magnavox, Pioneer, ProSCAN, RCA,
> >>>Samsung, Sanyo, Sharp, SONY, Technics, Toshiba, Zenith
> >>>
> >>>Provide Extended care for: AON, Circuit City, GE Contracts, Glass
Agency,
> >>>Philips Contracts, NEW, Rex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of art bevilacqua
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:44 PM
> >>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v: End of Discussion
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Perry, you do not have 220 coming into your house. The nominal United
> >>>States Standard distribution voltage for single phase power is 120/240
> >>>Vac (120 Line to Neutral, 240 Line to Line). Look at the rating on your
> >>>breaker panel, or check your copy of the National Electrical Code to
> >>>confirm this.
> >>>
> >>>If you measure the voltage with your volt meter, you will likely see
> >>>something either less than or greater than 120, the code also specifies
> >>>an allowable range that the utility must stay within.
> >>>
> >>>Many other countries use 200 volt range supplies, here is a site that
> >>>lists many of them, and gives the types of connectors commonly in use.
> >>>
> >>>http://kropla.com/electric2.htm
> >>>
> >>>If you look back at the original question, the person having the
problem
> >>>lives in the West Indies. West Indies doesn't appear in the web site
> >>>referenced, but given the popularity of 220 Vac around the world,
that's
> >>>probably what he's got.=20
> >>>
> >>>As far as equipment, many devices are able to handle multiple voltages.
> >>>Older equipment, stereos etc, had jumpers to reconfigure the supply
> >>>connection to the primary of the power transformer.
> >>>
> >>>Newer stuff with switching supplies can vary their pulse widths to
> >>>accommodate the higher input voltages. The limit would be the ratings
of
> >>>input diodes, caps, etc. but if the manufacture rated his stuff for
> >>>100-240, he'd have the world licked.
> >>>
> >>>And sure enough, just for laughs, I've just looked at the five monitors
> >>>in my office (1 sceptre, 2 HP's, 1 Panasonic, and 1 NEC) and every one
> >>>of them has an input rating of 100-240 Vac, 50/60 Hz, making them
> >>>saleable throughout the world.
> >>>
> >>>I hope this will solve the mystery once and for all.
> >>>
> >>>Later, art
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Art Bevilacqua
> >>>Essex Radio and TV
> >>>40 Main Street
> >>>Essex, MA 01929
> >>>abevilac@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Electric Medic
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 10:48 PM
> >>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yeah, we have 220 coming to our house, one 110 on one side of breaker
> >>>box,
> >>>and another 110 on the other side. I wired a special 220v outlet to my
> >>>building outside. But in the tens of thousands of TV's that I have
> >>>fixed, I
> >>>have never had any customer that lived in the states say he used 220v
on
> >>>his
> >>>TV. I don't know or care what they use overseas. I still can not figure
> >>>out
> >>>why anybody in the states would use 220v on a TV, and how they would
> >>>even
> >>>plug it in. I know the manual says this chassis will work on 220v, but
> >>>why
> >>>in the states? I am still confused about the member that says the
CTC187
> >>>works fine on 110v but hums on 220v. I have not seen it answered does
he
> >>>live in the states or overseas? Does he have two power cords or are
they
> >>>running 220v to a standard 110 outlet. I do not think I saw this
> >>>addressed,
> >>>or I missed many post.
> >>>
> >>>Perry
> >>>Electric Medic
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jeff Dougherty
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 10:00 PM
> >>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Now wait...don't we all have 220 coming in to our homes now?
> >>>If you have an electric range, it requires 220...two hots and a
neutral.
> >>>110vac is distributed to the rest of the wiring.
> >>>This may be a little off topic for this list, but I still believe it to
> >>>be
> >>>an
> >>>interesting topic...as well as a learning one.
> >>>In-other-words, doesn't the step-down transformer send 220 to our
> >>>panels?
> >>>support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>FAX 717-564-4952
> >>>Jeff Dougherty
> >>>Intrepid Video & Electronics Be careful of your thoughts.
> >>>501 Luther Rd They may become your words
> >>>Harrisburg, PA 17111 any moment.
> >>>717-909-8844
> >>>VCR tips, electronics info & general interest.
> >>>www.intrepid-video.com www.tech-repair.net
> >>>www.thetoolcaddy.com www.9-11-2001tragedy.com
> >>>***********************************************************************
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Damon" <DAMON101@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 6:52 AM
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>This really doesn't make economical sense, tri-phase systems in
> >>>residential
> >>>areas??
> >>>
> >>>REALITY: 2 wires provide power, the only difference is the transformer
> >>>setup
> >>>that drops down the power to your home. In the land of 110 our
> >>>transformer
> >>>outputs 220V with a center tap that delivers 2 - 110V supplies or 1 -
> >>>220V
> >>>supply. (Hey, isn't that sweet....3 supplies in one, eh?).
> >>>
> >>>As for the european 220V supply system......I can only guess, but you
do
> >>>not
> >>>have that Center-tap. And I really doubt that the electric company is
> >>>going
> >>>to use 2 wires for power, then strap on a 3rd wire for grounding
> >>>purposes
> >>>(what purpose would that serve, except to reference the metal toaster
> >>>casing
> >>>to your bathtub water??). I'm sure the 220V tranformers have no
> >>>practical
> >>>need for earth ground, since all the electronics would behave as though
> >>>they
> >>>had an "Isolation transformer" on them. (That's the stepdown
> >>>transformer...outside your home).
> >>>
> >>>Personally, I've heard that 110V is more dangerous than 220V......but I
> >>>don't see that as a logical argument...What.....110 has less voltage,
> >>>therefore we enjoy holding onto it longer, thus toasting us, but not
the
> >>>europeans????
> >>>If anybody has an answer to why 220 is safer than 110.... I'm
listening.
> >>>
> >>>And that TRI-PHASE residential power supply??? Man, that is a load of
> >>>hooey....of course, the government planners weren't reaching into their
> >>>pockets, so I can assume they tapped into your dad's or grandad's
> >>>wallet??
> >>>
> >>>Damon Brunger
> >>>damon101@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Telrad Electronic Services
> >>>Ft Wayne, IN 46815
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Vilhelm Boor" <villyboor@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> >>><techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:29 AM
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Villy Boor
> >>>> Boorelec Durban
> >>>> I have to come back with a post script, To get voltage for a TV at
> >>>over
> >>>200V would require you to use a transformer. I am sure there could be
> >>>other
> >>>methods using odd switching type devices but extremes of design like
> >>>that
> >>>would be nonsense as it would be cheaper to get the correct model. I
can
> >>>not
> >>>see where the smoke would be derived if you stuck this on your TV as I
> >>>am at
> >>>a loss as to how you would hook it up.
> >>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 07:59:10
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 07:59:10
> >>>> Vilhelm Boor wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Villy Boor
> >>>> > Boorelec Durban
> >>>> > I am shocked that I know more about your power supplies in North
> >>>America than seemingly you its residents do. North America works on
110V
> >>>and
> >>>you are stuck with that, tough its not as safe and losses are greater.
> >>>Now
> >>>you have a situation where you wish more voltage, you have to cheat The
> >>>mains supply is 3 phase, it is usual to run a line down a street and
try
> >>>to
> >>>balance the power by having house 1 on phase 1 house 2 on phase 2 etc.
> >>>To
> >>>get 220V you have to cheat, you use 2 phases so a plug has 2 live's.
But
> >>>why
> >>>in the name of Freddy would we have to do that. Options on the back of
> >>>TVs
> >>>have gone, that requires you have a mains transformer, costs money is a
> >>>no
> >>>no. American TV is only viewable in America and a few other countries,
> >>>the
> >>>rest of us use the PAL system a much later and superior system, it
> >>>follows
> >>>then there is no requirement for your sets to work here or X. No we
have
> >>>standard 3 pin plugs (flat Pins pointing at 10 and 2 with an unused
> >>>earth at
> >>>6) nominal fuse volt
> >>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>> > ge
> >>>> > is 4A and there is no mystery
> >>>> >--
> >>>> >
> >>>> >On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:54:26
> >>>> > Julian Panizo wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>In the countries with 220-240 V many sets have the 110 V option via
> >>>switch
> >>>> >>and a few have the voltage change automatic. The household wiring
is
> >>>two
> >>>(2)
> >>>> >>conductors, normally one hot and the other neutral, derived from a
> >>>street
> >>>> >>trifasic supply. In a few countries you get in some places 220 and
> >>>others
> >>>> >>110.
> >>>> >>Julian
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Julian Panizo
> >>>> >>C.C. 1867 Asunci=F3n Paraguay
> >>>> >>Phone/Fax 595 21 601913
> >>>> >>panizo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>>> >>From: "Electric Medic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> >>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> >>Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 8:41 PM
> >>>> >>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> We STILL have not answered the QUESTION. Does this guys set work
> >>>on
> >>>> >>> 220volts. He said the set worked on 110v but not properly on
220v.
> >>>I
> >>>can
> >>>> >>not
> >>>> >>> believe that the set was designed to work on 220v using the same
> >>>power
> >>>> >>cord
> >>>> >>> that came with the set. Every 220v circuit I have seen here in
the
> >>>states
> >>>> >>> has a different cord (larger plug) with two hots. Is this some
> >>>special
> >>>> >>> CTC187AD. I think this is important enough to answer. We all know
> >>>that
> >>>220
> >>>> >>> has to hots and a neutral, and 110 has one hot and a neutral. I
am
> >>>> >>> interested how in the world he is plugging a CTC187 into a 220v
> >>>outlet.
> >>>> >>> Please someone, or the owner of the set EXPLAIN. Everyone that I
> >>>have
> >>>seen
> >>>> >>> will smoke if you apply 220v. This is driving me crazy. Why would
> >>>anyone
> >>>> >>> want to run his set on both 110v and 220v anyway? It seems to me
> >>>if it
> >>>> >>> worked on 110v, that should be good enough. Very confused here in
> >>>Georgia.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Perry Bower
> >>>> >>> Electric Medic
> >>>> >>> "It's Cheaper to Keep Her"
> >>>> >>> http://www.electricmedic.com
> >>>> >>> Check out the Electronic Repair Screensaver We created. More
> >>>Images to
> >>>> >>come!
> >>>> >>> To download these Collections you must first install the Eyetide
> >>>Viewer:
> >>>> >>>
> >>>>
>
>>>>>http://www.eyetide.com/download/?s=3DO3OfmSLHXygGHCv1W6Gz3Bgjtq3DNNMNdc
=
> >>>K
> >>>sYSV
> >>>GC
> >>>> >>> "We're Number One Where it Really Counts, With our Customers"
> >>>> >>> 3850 Washington Road Suite 5b
> >>>> >>> Martinez, Georgia 30907
> >>>> >>> Phone: 706-8MEDIC4 (863-3424)
> >>>> >>> Phone: 706-863-3474
> >>>> >>> Fax: 706-863-2316
> >>>> >>> mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> >>> "WE REPAIR WITH CARE"
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> SERVICE CENTERS PLEASE READ!!
> >>>> >>> 1. Are you currently backed up or over-loaded?
> >>>> >>> 2. Are you short a tech or have one on vacation?
> >>>> >>> 3. Do you need help with a very difficult repair?
> >>>> >>> 4. Would you like to make money jobbing the work out?
> >>>> >>> 5. Would you like to ship out less profitable products so you can
> >>>repair
> >>>> >>> others?
> >>>> >>> If you answered Yes to any of the above questions, Checkout these
> >>>> >>websites:
> >>>> >>> http://www.electricmedic.com/salesa.htm
> >>>> >>> or
> >>>> >>> http://www.electricmedic.com/shipping.htm
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Factory Trained Authorized Service Center For: APEX, Fisher, GE,
> >>>KEC/KTV,
> >>>> >>> Konka, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips Magnavox, Pioneer, ProSCAN,
> >>>RCA,
> >>>> >>> Samsung, Sanyo, Sharp, SONY, Technics, Toshiba, Zenith
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Provide Extended care for: AON, Circuit City, GE Contracts, Glass
> >>>Agency,
> >>>> >>> Philips Contracts, NEW, Rex
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> >>> From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> >>> [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Larry E.
> >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:11 PM
> >>>> >>> To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> >>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: 220v
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Tommy, their talking about European tv sets not North American
> >>>> >>> Larry Eastman
> >>>> >>> American TV & Electronics
> >>>> >>> Crystal River, Fl. 34428
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Hermantvr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> > Guys...I really don't know what you mean when you talk abut a
TV
> >>>using
> >>>> >>> 220v.
> >>>> >>> > On a 120v line you have a hot side and a neutral (0 volts)
side.
> >>>On
> >>>a
> >>>> >>240
> >>>> >>> > line you have two hot sides.....believe me it will let the
smoke
> >>>out
> >>>of
> >>>> >>> yur
> >>>> >>> > power supply filters.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Tommy Herman
> >>>> >>> > Herman TV
> >>>> >>> > 250 School Ave SW
> >>>> >>> > Taylorsville N.C. 28681
> >>>> >>> > 828-632-5322 Voice
> >>>> >>> > 828-632-3880 Fax
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > If a TV requires 120 Watts of power, you could power it with
> >>>120V, 1
> >>>Amp
> >>>> >>> > or 240V, 0.5A.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Gary McCartney
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > McCartney Electronics
> >>>> >>> > 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>>> >>> > Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>>> >>> > Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>>> >>> > email: gary (at) number63.ca
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > gulftech@xxxxxxxx wrote:
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>Dear Villy,
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>Most of us know that formula as P =3D IE. Since current is
> >>>directly
> >>>> >>> >>proportional to voltage ( I =3D E/R), an increase in voltage
> >>>yields a
> >>>> >>> >>corresponding increase in current with R held constant. If
> >>>current
> >>>and
> >>>> >>> >>voltage are both doubled, power is increased by a factor of 4.
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>Regards,
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>Ken Smith
> >>>> >>> >>Gulf Technical Services
> >>>> >>> >>3034 Gulf Breeze Parkway
> >>>> >>> >>Gulf Breeze, FL 32563
> >>>> >>> >>850-934-8324 (Voice) 850-932-0819 (Fax)
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:03:37 0000 "Vilhelm Boor"
> >>><villyboor@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> >>> >>writes:
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>>Villy boor
> >>>> >>> >>> Boorelec Durban
> >>>> >>> >>> When I read some of this I am rather surprised, where were
> >>>some of
> >>>> >>> >>>you trained, what happened to Ohms law? Why 2 round prongs.
> >>>Most
> >>>> >>> >>>countries use various combinations of flat pin at various
> >>>angles,
> >>>> >>> >>>Round pins tended to have a bakelite body.
> >>>> >>> >>> But please remember W=3DIV so the greater V is the less I =
> >>>will
> >>>be
> >>>so
> >>>> >>> >>>cables are lighter, plugs can be smaller and fuses lower I.
> >>>Philips
> >>>> >>> >>>for example make a wide range of TV with an input requirement
> >>>of
> >>>> >>> >>>from 90V to 270V, just plug it in and its working. I am
> >>>sometimes
> >>>> >>> >>>left speechless, this is your subject and livlihood, you must
> >>>know
> >>>> >>> >>>basics.
> >>>> >>> >>>On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:43:29
> >>>> >>> >>> teltek2 wrote:
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>>>No...Their 220 does not requite a huge plug like your
> >>>dryer..just
> >>>2
> >>>> >>> >>>>
> >>>> >>> >>>round
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Tommy Herman
> >>>> >>> > Herman TV
> >>>> >>> > 250 School Ave SW
> >>>> >>> > Taylorsville N.C. 28681
> >>>> >>> > 828-632-5322 Voice
> >>>> >>> > 828-632-3880 Fax
> >>>> >>> > hermantvr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> >>> > ------------------------------------------
> >>>> >>> > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here:
> >>>> >>> > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html
> >>>> >>> > ------------------------------------------
> >>>> >>> > To REMOVE your email address, click here:
> >>>> >>> > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html
> >>>> >>> > To CHANGE your email address, click here:
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> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> --
> >>>> >>> Larry Eastman
> >>>> >>> American TV & Electronics
> >>>> >>> Crystal River, Fl.
> >>>> >>> http://www.tvjunkyard.com
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------
> >>>> >>> Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here:
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> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>------------------------------------------
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> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >_____________________________________________________________
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