[tccrockets] Re: Bonding Aluminum to Fiberglass
- From: James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 23:46:24 -0800
I really like this shot. The Jager meister is a nice touch.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:44 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> LOL, yeah, me too. But CF is a real mess! Not sure I would want the
> splinters!
>
> I just think if you're gonna go through all that effort, why put G10 on it,
> otherwise use solid aluminum or G10 fins :-)
>
> So, sounds like you're having fun with it...
>
> Maybe try it with some plywood then, it won't be so heavy but would be a
> really
> strong and fun to finish!
>
> Here's a picture of the M150 under vacuum, then peeled before sanding.
>
> I'm doing my M165 this year the same way, maybe you should camp out and
> we will do a few "peel sessions" :-)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:38 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> If I worked at at place like Dragonplate, I would need a really big lunch
>> box - you know, for those scrap pieces ;-)
>> Oh well, I'm using a sheet of 1/8" thick aluminum I bought at a scrap
>> yard at $5.25 per pound, and left over G-10. Not that I'm cheap (insert
>> joke here); just want to see if I can build something with this stuff. I'm
>> not even sure if it will save weight.
>> I will get the itching kit to see how it works.
>>
>> I would be interested in the vacuum set-up. Would you please post some
>> photos?
>> Richard
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 9:50 PM, "James Dougherty" <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I think I would break down and buy the whole sheet :-)
>> http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=65
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:49 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, 1/32" thick G-10 Garolite
>>>
>>> http://dragonplate.com/ecart/product.asp?pID=3925&cID=93
>>>
>>> Ouch, pricy, I know ...
>>>
>>> But If you could design the fins to fit those sheets... man oh man.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:46 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richard,
>>>> What laminates are you using?
>>>> I have a vacuum setup I am not using if you want to borrow it.
>>>> -james
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:36 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Richard, disregard, Cotronics is not what you need for this
>>>>> - I see what you are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=12214
>>>>>
>>>>> It's an acid wash which chemically alters the surface as you've
>>>>> described.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very cool! Can you send us a full report?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:30 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's exactly what it is, like an etching primer you use for metal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get some Cotronics 4540 Machinable aluminum or 4525. I have some
>>>>>> I can give you one at the next launch if you need like pre-kitted 2
>>>>>> oz batches ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 6:09 PM, R Dierking <
>>>>>> applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm thinking it's acid based to chemically etch the material and
>>>>>>> also a film so the aluminum will not oxidize immediately when exposed
>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>> to the air. Some people use wet sanding of the aluminum to prevent the
>>>>>>> oxidation layer that prevents good bonding. For this technique, slow
>>>>>>> cure
>>>>>>> epoxy (30 minute) is used and the aluminum surface is wet sanded with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> epoxy. I know, it sounds like a big mess, but it works!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For my application, I'm looking to bond 1/8" thick aluminum between
>>>>>>> sheets of 1/32" thick G-10 Garolite for fins. The attached photo shows
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> aluminum test peice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm probably going to try the West Systems Aluminum Etch on
>>>>>>> some test pieces and see if I can pull the layers apart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard Dierking
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Bonding Aluminum to Fiberglass
>>>>>>> From: bandman444@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:31:47 -0800
>>>>>>> To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't, when we bonded the aluminum fins to our N5800 rocket we
>>>>>>> used LOCtite Hysol 9430 and used a sanding while epoxy on approach. It
>>>>>>> held
>>>>>>> to Mach 3 so I guess it was ok.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The West Systems kit looks interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bryce Chanes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:51 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone have experience using the West Systems 860-8 aluminum
>>>>>>> etch kit for bonding aluminum to fiberglass?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard Dierking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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