In a message dated 12/15/2005 10:47:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, InquestGSD writes: Fred: We already have many 10+4+4 judges, and I would not considered some judges who continuously put up incorrect dogs knowledgeable. Remember the locked hock debate? How many keep missing on that??? Too many. Not long ago a long time judge was trying to convince me that topline is defined mainly by a high wither..........hmmmm. Education and accountability are what is needed. A forum where judging results get dissected and evaluated by a group of peers. Lots of continuous training and seminars. But who wants to volunteer for that? <G> JMO ========================================================== You just keep repeating the problem we all know what it is . Until we all get educated the best we have is 10+4+4. again unless you can come up with a plan. I know I have no idea what to do . ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================