RE: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical perspective

Oh man your right I could not live without my Braille cards.  See I knew
people on this list could come up with things that I could not do without
Braille there is two now,  Playing cards (unless I want to scan each with a
p barcode to find out what it is puke) and the other so far is dramatic
reading or reading in front of a group.  I will say though I have been able
to do speeches just fine without Braille but I do only take down notes so
the speech will say something like "Jerk info" and I will do a 30 minute
talk on my past.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacob Kruger
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 2:07 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
perspective

Ok, while I also don't personally use braille for anything more than 
labelling things, and while I can literally write braille faster with a 
slate and stylus than I can generally read it, and while I can only read 
basic braille, I do actually have braille tattoos inside both forearms - and

they're done so that they stand out a bit.

Honest truth is how many sighties write things physically nowadays...?

Apart from notes, etc., I honestly don't think I wrote too much using a pen 
on a piece of paper 5 years ago, when was still sighted, so even then, I 
pretty much did/handled everything on electronic devices/units, but during 
my adaptation process in 2006, I still learnt at least basic braille, and 
during at least one power failure, I played solitaire using braille cards, 
so will also say that while nothing is necessarily more important than 
anything else, maybe, at least for some people, all things have their 
time/place.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale Leavens" <dleavens@xxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical 
perspective


> Ken,
>
> I didn't mean this to be personal and I don't deny the benefits of 
> technology. I bought my first HP125 with speech to assist my practice in 
> 1982 when I couldn't really afford it and began programming because there 
> really weren't the applications back then for it. I also keep an address 
> book on my phone and of course I don't carry my notes about with me any 
> more than do my sighted colleagues. I take my notebook computer traveling 
> with me where ever I go and sometimes even a little note recorder though I

> prefer a small slate and paper.
>
> This discussion always seems to get personal and defensive. As I said I am

> not a really good braille reader but sure glad I am a functional braille 
> user.
>
> What your buddy cannot do technologically isn't a discussion of braille 
> use. It is a technologically illiterate presumably in a situation where 
> that disadvantages him. That is not the same thing. I worked with many 
> technologically disadvantaged persons, with increasing use of PDF and 
> other non screen reader friendly applications in the Health Industry I was

> often technologically disadvantaged and braille was of no benefit to me 
> there either. these are not the same issues.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 9:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical 
> perspective
>
>
>> You are wrong those of us who read Braille at a low level totally agree 
>> that
>> reading Braille would be nice.  What offends me though is people jumping 
>> the
>> shark and calling anyone who can't read a story or a menu fast enough to
>> order illiterate.  As I said in my first email I agree that Braille 
>> should
>> be taught in school and those who have the ability to learn at a young 
>> age
>> should but not knowing how to read Braille at a fast enough page to read
>> books is not an end all.  I don't feel robbed because I can't.  Whereas I
>> would feel robbed if I couldn't read text in the sighted world as a 
>> sighted
>> person.  It's a total different ball game.  You have signs in the sighted
>> world.  Braille signs are not only hard to find but when you find them
>> sometimes they are just stupid I found a Braille sign on a fire hydrant 
>> once
>> that said it was a fire hydrant.  You mentioned taking notes.  I have 3
>> devices that instantly turn on if I need them and can take notes not only
>> faster than I could with a brailler but I could search and call them up
>> faster.  For that matter one of the devices I edit notes on my server 
>> with
>> in almost any place because its 3G so do you carry those volumes of notes
>> around with you in Braille?  That would be a site.  All I am saying is I
>> agree that Braille is good to learn.  So that makes a middle ground I do 
>> not
>> agree that I lose greatly by not knowing how to read Braille at a level
>> where I can read books.
>>
>> I tell you what though.  I know a  person that I work with that still to
>> this day cannot use a computer.  He is trying to learn right now.  I find
>> him at a much larger disadvantage and he is a Braille expert.  He uses a
>> Braille note and has no idea of things he could do if he understood
>> technology.  I find him at a much larger disadvantage than I find myself.
>> You can't individually shop without getting help if you know only Braille
>> but you can if you know technology.  You can't create documents for the
>> sighted world if you know only Braille but you can with technology. 
>> Braille
>> doesn't help you if you have to create those pill labels for other 
>> customers
>> but technology does.  I find that technology is a much more important 
>> tool
>> than Braille when interacting with the rest of the world.  Braille has 
>> made
>> it possible for the blind to get started and to self organize while
>> Technology has opened the world like nothing else has for blind people.
>>
>> Again I will finish this by saying I believe Braille should be taught but
>> it's time to stop telling our kids they are something less if they don't
>> read at the rate needed to read books in Braille.  They are not something
>> less they are something different.  Even the sighted world is starting to
>> have to come to terms with what the new technology age is bringing our 
>> kids
>> into.  It used to be you could not be a programmer in the sighted world 
>> if
>> you cannot learn a language.  Not so with programming languages like 
>> scratch
>> kids are learning to code visually.  When coding languages get to the 
>> point
>> where you can tell the computer what to do and it will do it and create 
>> an
>> application for others to use will they no longer be programmers.     No
>> they will be programmers in a different way.  We have to use the tools 
>> that
>> give us the best life style possible and Braille is only a very small
>> portion of that life style unless you have multiple disabilities.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dale Leavens
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:55 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>> perspective
>>
>> But surely that is the point.
>>
>> I too came to braille somewhat late and never was a really good braille
>> reader nevertheless Janet and I have three braillers around here, I 
>> always
>> had one on the corner of my desk at work for banging down notes or 
>> telephone
>>
>> numbers, getting correct spellings for patient names and organizing lists
>> for placing orders or any number of other things. Nothing like the random
>> access to bits of information offered by written notes. We label things 
>> with
>>
>> braille dymo tape, so convenient though we don't do it enough.
>>
>> Computer voice has certainly sped some things up and much recreational
>> reading I would never do without talking books.
>>
>> Certainly one can get along without being able to read or write braille.
>> remarkably large numbers of sighted people cannot read or write print
>> adequately either and many function so well that people don't know they
>> cannot. all that notwithstanding those who do not read braille adequately
>> for function really cannot appreciate the value and benefit of braille
>> literacy and those of us who do don't like to think of getting along 
>> without
>>
>> it.
>>
>> Interestingly, neither has anyone ever asked me if I use braille when
>> applying for work. Many make assumptions that I would use a dog guide or
>> that a spouse drives me about or that I would be counting steps, I don't
>> think those questions have much to do with what is required.
>>
>> What computers have done for us more than anything else is add another
>> channel of literacy of a sort for us. As with braille they give us a 
>> better
>> random access to what we read than we had with tape and a currency we 
>> could
>> never have with tape or braille and in some situations more instantly.
>>
>> I don't know why this debate always seems to get defensive. It is like 
>> the
>> dog/cane thing somehow there doesn't seem to be any neutral ground.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: "Bob Kennedy" <intheshop@xxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 7:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>> perspective
>>
>>
>>>I agree that braille is generally a valuable skill for a blind person to
>>>have.  I think all rehab programs should include braille instruction, and
>>>all blind kids should be taught braille at an early age. Unfortunately, I
>>>have also concluded that it is extremely  difficult for someone to become
>>>efficient in reading braille if he or she did not learn it as a young
>>>child -- perhaps similar to the way that languages are much harder to 
>>>reach
>>
>>>fluency level when learned later in life.
>>>
>>> So, I read braille, but despite much practice during my late teens and
>>> early 20s, (I lost my sight as a junior in high school), I never 
>>> achieved
>>> a speed that made it practical to use braille except for things like 
>>> menus
>>
>>> and labels.  I have met many blind adults who are similarly situated. 
>>> We
>>> have to make the best of speech or other techniques besides braille.
>>>
>>> Jamal
>>>
>>> On 12/22/2010 4:18 AM, Bob Kennedy wrote:
>>>> Wow I didn't know there was so much passion for Braille.  Having gone
>>>> blind
>>>> at age 12, I had to learn Braille, just later than most.  Never could
>>>> read
>>>> fast and the careers I've had have left me with a small spot that is
>>>> smaller
>>>> than a full Braille cell of sensitivity on one finger.
>>>>
>>>> I've never had a problem finding work though, and no one has ever asked
>>>> me
>>>> if I can read Braille as a part of a job interview.
>>>>
>>>> No need for that when I built transmissions I guess.  I have been asked
>>>> many
>>>> times about my computer skills since I've left the garage business but
>>>> still
>>>> no concern for Braille.
>>>>
>>>> I better hope it stays that way or I'll have to get the Think Green
>>>> people
>>>> involved.  What is the ratio now?  Four pages of Braille to one of 
>>>> print?
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Sina Bahram"<sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 10:40 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>>>> perspective
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What Ken said.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Sina
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:44 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: RE: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>>>> perspective
>>>>
>>>> You said ,
>>>> "Take away your tech, your electricity, your computer, your gadgets, 
>>>> your
>>>> willing friends to read to you, hand you a greeting card
>>>> from a friend, a recipe, a medicine bottle with a braille label on it,
>>>> and
>>>> what happens?  Go to a nice restaurant with a sighted
>>>> friend, have the waiter hand you a braille menu which they have gone to
>>>> the
>>>> trouble and expense of providing you, have that friend
>>>> step away to go to the restroom, the waiter approach you and ask: 
>>>> "What
>>>> will you have today?"  What happens?  "Sorry, can you read
>>>> me your menu?  I can't read this."  Litterate or illiterate?  You tell
>>>> me."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You assume a lot of things in the above.  I have been blind 20 years 
>>>> and
>>>> got
>>>> one Braille Christmas card,  I have only recently
>>>> started seeing any Braille menus.  If you took the tech from most 
>>>> sighted
>>>> people they would be lost as well.  I have never got one
>>>> bottle of pills with a Braille label.  Most of the Pill bottles I get
>>>> come
>>>> with barcodes though and read fine.  As for Cards  my son
>>>> and daughter have given me audible ones.  Hell I got one this year with
>>>> actual letters I could feel true this is like brailed so
>>>> don't really count.  The point is Tech is here to stay and if it went
>>>> away
>>>> then maybe it would be worth me gaining speed with
>>>> Braille.  It is like saying you don't know how to ride a horse so you
>>>> won't
>>>> be able to travel more than 20 to 40  miles  a day
>>>> because you will have to walk if you don't have a car.  .  When I want 
>>>> to
>>>> read a menu I download one and I do that on my Braille
>>>> plus and or Iphone both.  I actually take pictures of menu on  my 
>>>> IPhone
>>>> and
>>>> read it that way many times.  I am sorry but my brother
>>>> has started going to restaurants in Atlanta only if they have online
>>>> menus
>>>> does that make him illiterate? Kids in college now
>>>> couldn't do Calculus if you took their calculator away but I could does
>>>> that
>>>> make them lost in the world of business  because they
>>>> use a tool?
>>>>
>>>> I never said that my way I s the best way.  What I said is to call them
>>>> illiterate is asinine.  If they can write and read and spell
>>>> they are literate.  You might not call them fully self sufficient but I
>>>> would argue that until every written word is in Braille then
>>>> no blind person is self sufficient when it comes to reading but then it
>>>> looks like Google will fix access to text long before paper
>>>> Braille ever catches up.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> The funny thing is you say take your tech away and yet what you were
>>>> talking
>>>> about originally is reading with a Braille display.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Find yourself in a place with no new batteries for your machines, no
>>>> power,
>>>> access to a PC ETC.  Hand you a slate and stylus or,
>>>> heck, just a sharp pin and some paper.  Instruct you to leave a note 
>>>> for
>>>> a
>>>> friend that you stepped out for an hour and will be back,
>>>> and what happens?
>>>>
>>>> Take pride in your abilities, do.  Even boast about how well your 
>>>> memory
>>>> works, your accomplishments in programming, your
>>>> mathematical prowess, whatever you like but, don't tell me there is no
>>>> value
>>>> in reading and that implying that if some can't
>>>> actually interact directly with text for themselves, know that letters 
>>>> on
>>>> that page are forming themselves into words and so forth,
>>>> that this is an assinine thing to say.  For one thing, it's rude,
>>>> discourteous, ETC. for another, it's not true.  Do as many studies
>>>> as you like, ask as many people as you like, whatever.  You are not
>>>> illiterate because you learned to read and write as a child.
>>>> You used print.  You have some knowledge of braille.  If you can't do
>>>> grade
>>>> II, it is probably because you chose to deny yourself
>>>> this skill.  If you can learn computer code, you can learn braille code
>>>> be
>>>> it Nemeth, computer braille, musical notation, whatever
>>>> you like.  If you can learn alternate keyboards, you can train your 
>>>> mind
>>>> to
>>>> learn the feel of different symbols.  The only reason
>>>> you couldn't is if your sense of touch is not working for some reason.
>>>> In
>>>> spite of this, the fact that you were taught your letters
>>>> and how to read and write them as a child and learned them makes you
>>>> literate.  You just haven't fully transferred those skills to
>>>> another medium because you chose to rely on tech instead of putting 
>>>> forth
>>>> the time and effort it took to master them.  There are
>>>> those who never really truly learn their letters unless they are the 
>>>> ones
>>>> doing the writing, output, not input.  Their knowledge of
>>>> letters is more akin to their ability to put words together in a spoken
>>>> sentence.  They know how to type out letters on a computer
>>>> keyboard to get the computer to say what they want.  A lot of them 
>>>> write
>>>> ate
>>>> when they mean eight, break when they mean brake,
>>>> speach when they mean speech and so forth because the computer speaks
>>>> them
>>>> out just the same and their mind never skips a beat when
>>>> they hear it spoken and when their friends hear them spoken from a 
>>>> screen
>>>> reader.  They can write, they can not read.  ugly?
>>>> Unyielding?  Yes, the world often is.  Yes.  Uncomfortable?  You tell 
>>>> me.
>>>> Fact?
>>>> Absolutely.  It is immutable, uncontradictable, inarguable.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry about the rant.  I will stop since this has gotten off topic.
>>>> It was never my intent to offend anyone.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Alex M
>>>>
>>>> On 12/21/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I agree that Braille should be taught and is good to know.  I
>>>>> have to put my 3 cents in.  I went blind at 20 and in my now 20 years
>>>>> of being blind,  I have only been able to learn to read Braille to the
>>>>> see dick run levels.  That means I read enough to be able to code
>>>>> Braille output
>>>> methods
>>>>> (i.e. My unique way of Braille scrolling on the Braille+ and Icon) and
>>>>> I
>>>> can
>>>>> code games like Sudoku for the same devices.  I can also read labels
>>>>> but
>>>> if
>>>>> you give me a Braille book be ready to age before I finish a 
>>>>> paragraph.
>>>> Now
>>>>> I realize if I would have learned Braille when I was young it would be
>>>> much
>>>>> faster but I have said all this to say this.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea that someone is illiterate because they don't read Braille
>>>>> and
>>>> are
>>>>> totally blind is just stupid and asinine.  I have Taken High level
>>>>> math classes with no Knowledge of nemeth,  True I would not have had
>>>>> to use a reader if I knew nemeth then but I also could have done it
>>>>> alone if they would have let me use the tools I can use for example I
>>>>> could do all my calculus by hand with my Calculator/ worksheet called
>>>>> xplore.  It  of
>>>> course
>>>>> is not really that accessible now that it's a windows app but when it
>>>>> was
>>>> a
>>>>> dos app it was awesome for doing math by hand on the computer.  Yes
>>>>> the computer did some of the work when I wanted it to but hell seen a
>>>>> sighted person take calculus without an hp48 in hand lately?  Now I
>>>>> will say when
>>>> I
>>>>> took Calculus I could and did do five page problems in my head.  My
>>>> teacher
>>>>> actually insisted I do this for him once because he thought my reader
>>>>> was doing the math.  Little did he know I did the stuff better than he
>>>>> could
>>>> do
>>>>> on paper in my head.  I definitely couldn't do that now but back then
>>>>> I could.  Ask Sina I am sure he has that same ability.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now you say there is a difference from reading something by hand to
>>>>> listening to it?  Hell yeah the thing don't always pronounce things
>>>>> right and you can read a hell of a lot faster and retain more when
>>>>> listening.
>>>>> Doubt me?  Test me against anyone who can read Braille at what would
>>>>> be considered 100% give us 10 books to read in the same amount of time
>>>>> and
>>>> test
>>>>> us on it.  True this would really need to be done in a large group to
>>>>> make sure the people involved just were not stupid but I will
>>>>> guarantee the person listening to the text will retain more.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say yes but what about graphics and table.  Um sorry but getting
>>>>> graphics and tables into Braille still takes translation of
>>>>> information
>>>> and
>>>>> you will lose something there as well.  I actually found my Calculus
>>>>> books on tape from RFBD very well read and well described in fact the
>>>>> guy
>>>> correct
>>>>> the text book like 3 times that I remember while describing the
>>>>> graphics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note I have lived in both worlds a world where I had to read and do
>>>>> math
>>>> on
>>>>> paper and now one I do everything in my head or on a computer.  I find
>>>> using
>>>>> my brain a much better exercise than writing everything down.  I call
>>>> paper
>>>>> whether it be sighted paper or Braille a disability in itself.  I
>>>>> don't
>>>> whip
>>>>> out a book to take down a phone number I either remember it or poke it
>>>> into
>>>>> my phone.  Most of the time I remember it just because that works for
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now am I saying people don't need to learn Braille no.  As I started
>>>>> out I think people should learn Braille  from the beginning and even
>>>>> if they
>>>> lose
>>>>> their site it's a useful tool but I fully disagree that a person is
>>>>> illiterate just because he or she cannot read Braille well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to end by saying my wife who has a Kendil, and and IPad still
>>>>> loves to listen to Audible books and find she gets more out of the
>>>>> books when
>>>> she
>>>>> listens because her mind can both listen to what she is reading and
>>>>> assimilate the information without having to do the work of actually
>>>> reading
>>>>> the text and if you think that doesn't make a difference again I think
>>>> some
>>>>> studies should be done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>> Midence
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>>>>> perspective
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Don,
>>>>>
>>>>> For someone like you, braille isn't a viable solution.  Your case is
>>>>> special and understandable.  You can't read braille unless you can
>>>>> feel your way across a line.  About the most sensitive organ remaining
>>>>> to you short of your tongue for this purpose is probably the tip of
>>>>> your nose and, that would be ... well ... Let's just say that audio
>>>>> tech is a wonderful thing.  We can't have folks giggling at us when we
>>>>> read, you know.  =)  I'm talking about kids who grew up blind and have
>>>>> two perfectly functioning index fingers (never could read with my
>>>>> pinky, can anyone?) and a mind to go with them.  They should be able
>>>>> to use both braille and audio to good effect.
>>>>>
>>>>> alex M
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/20/10, Don Marang<donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>>>> My older sister was upset at me because I was unable to learn 
>>>>>> braille!
>>>> My
>>>>>> remaining fingers are just too insensitive now from nerve damage and
>>>>> endless
>>>>>> blood tests.  She has been a teacher at a blind school for at least
>>>>>> 20
>>>>> years
>>>>>> and is a huge advocate for braille litercy.  She even reads braille
>>>>>> while she is driving!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don Marang
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of
>>>>>> any
>>>>> real
>>>>>> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
>>>>> working
>>>>>> on things that matter.
>>>>>> Dean Kamen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "Alex Midence"<alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:03 PM
>>>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>>>>>> perspective
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Glad you liked it.  I was hoping someone on this list would have
>>>>>>> personal recollections of this time and the tech available.  Neat
>>>>>>> how there was braille output as far back as the 50's.  It's a shame
>>>>>>> that that stuff is stil as expensive as it is.  Perhaps, some day,
>>>>>>> as happened with speech technology, blind people will see the price
>>>>>>> of a braille display drop to something affordable as in, under a
>>>>>>> thousand dollars?  Same for a braille printer/embosser.  I am
>>>>>>> enormously concerned at how many of the blind kids I have met
>>>>>>> recently have poor braille reading skils and don't really seem to
>>>>>>> care that they are bordering on illiteracy.  Having something or
>>>>>>> someone read to you is not the same as direct input from a written
>>>>>>> document to your mind without an intermediary.  In this age of
>>>>>>> electronic texts, you would think that braille would explode in
>>>>>>> popularity since you no longer have to fill a room with tomes of the
>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/20/10, Rasmussen, Lloyd<lras@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> That was fascinating.  Dr. Stoffel worked at NIH for a period after
>>>>>>>> he wrote that article.  I could go on and on about this ancient
>>>>>>>> technology, but had better do it off-list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People had produced braille from computers since the 50's.  The
>>>>>>>> first speech for a blind computer user was for Jim Willows, an
>>>>>>>> engineer  at the Lawrence-Livermore Laboratories in 1968 (letters
>>>>>>>> and numbers played out through a digital-to-analog converter).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The context of this article ...  Votrax devices had been on the
>>>>>>>> market for several years, but the SC-01 chip was put into the Type
>>>>>>>> 'n Talk in
>>>> 1981.
>>>>>>>> This device had built-in letter-to-sound rules, so you didn't have
>>>>>>>> to send phonemes to it as you did the earlier V S A and VSB boards.
>>>>>>>> These
>>>> three
>>>>>>>> devices took RS-232 data and either acted like terminals or
>>>>>>>> interpreted terminal sequences and sent the data along through
>>>>>>>> another serial port
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> displayed.  They were not screen readers running on the computer
>>>>>>>> whose screen was being read.  It was revolutionary to think that
>>>>>>>> you could
>>>> buy
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> $300 Type 'n Talk instead of a $5,000 talking terminal to speak the
>>>> data
>>>>>>>> coming from an RS-232 device.  The Echo II synthesizer (using the T
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> technology) was added to the Apple II at about this time.  By the
>>>>>>>> end
>>>> of
>>>>>>>> 1983 there were screen readers for the Apple II and for the IBM PC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I worked a little bit with the FSST-3 and the VERT terminal, and
>>>>>>>> heard Deane Blazie demonstrate the TotalTalk at various
>>>>>>>> conventions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Project Engineer National Library Service
>>>>>>>> for the Blind and Physically Handicapped
>>>>>>>> Library of Congress   202-707-0535
>>>>>>>> http://www.loc.gov/nls
>>>>>>>> The preceding opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the Library of Congress, NLS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>> Midence
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 3:24 PM
>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind
>>>>>>>> Subject: Screen readers and how to develop them: A historical
>>>>> perspective
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi, all..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought this was rather interesting.  It is an article written in
>>>>>>>> 1982 about some of the techniques used back then to write screne
>>>> readers
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> "talking terminals" as they called them.  I was struck by some of
>>>>>>>> the predictions the author made with regard to the future, some of
>>>>>>>> wich
>>>> came
>>>>>>>> true and others which did not.  There was also a very interesting
>>>>> section
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> speech synthesis and how to get the hardware and software to do
>>>>>>>> many of the things we take for granted nowadays like starting and
>>>>>>>> stopping speech, repeating previously spoken text, deciding what to
>>>>>>>> say as an acronym
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> what to speak as a word, punctuation levels and so forth.  It was
>>>>>>>> fascinating stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
http://web.archive.org/web/20060625225004/http://www.edstoffel.com/david/tal
>>>>> kingterminals.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh yeah, and get a load of the prices for that stuff!  Keep in mind
>>>> that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> in 1980's money too.  Put like a 33% markup on it and you might
>>>>>>>> approximate what it would cost in today's money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at 
> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> 

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

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