Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
- From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 21:58:57 -0500
Does it have a braille display? If it does, it's a steal. Even if it
doesn't, it's an impressive little machine. I've never been too
worried about my songs though. I use a victor reader for that or,
potentialy, an iPod. The tool for the job, you understand. I'd like
to have a note taker that I could program my own little apps for if I
watned to. I could do that with the braille plus since it's on linux.
I don't think I could do that on the Braille Sense Plus. I've heard
horror stories about windows CE. I'd also like to be able to run main
stream apps on a note taker. Bet you could run open office on the
braille plus. MIght even be able to run eclipse or code::blocks on it
since they have linux versions. Am I correct in these assumptions?
Alex M
On 9/9/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Braille + is only 1395
> $ yes more than a phone but find me a phone with 60 gb drive true it's not a
> phone it's a pda but that's what I want. If my Phone breaks I still have
> all my music and books and I can send my phone in.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:34 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>
> Even the devices without Braille displays usually still run somewhere
> near $2000. An unlocked Droid 2 is $569 or something. And the latter
> blows the former out of the water in every technical metric possible. I
> think there is some merit to the notion of a smaller customer base
> meaning you have to increase your profit margin to make it worthwhile,
> but I think mostly it's that it's just always been this way, and none of
> these companies is going to be the one to take a hit on the bottom line
> for what's right. That just isn't how business is done. Of course, if
> one of them did, I think the consequences of such a move would surprise
> some, Company X included.
>
> On 09/09/2010 05:27 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
>> You really believe this stuff? Honestly? Even after industry insiders have
> come on here and told you that they are making $5,500 per
>> product?
>>
>> Wow ...
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:07 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>
>> Hi,
>> Both CPU's use ARM architecture. I'd say the cost is related to low
> customer base, exclusive contracts and braille display
>> technology as it stands.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:51 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>
>> Agreed. I have always wondered why it would kill HW and GWM to grab a
> Snapdragon or comparable processor, a single or dual core at
>> 1ghz, and put it into a braille notetaker. I realize it is not quite that
> simple, that embeded systems are not as plug-and-play as
>> desktop or laptop systems, but still... would it really be that hard?
> After all, the mPower uses an xScale processor while the Apex
>> runs on a FreeScale. Sure they also had to port Keysoft from ce4.2 to ce6,
> but it still proves that it is possible to switch
>> processors. I wonder if any of the new processors are using the ARM
> architecture, as I think that is what the Apex uses. Well, as
>> another poster said so well, this is nearing a rant so I will stop.
>>
>> On 9/9/10, Alex Midence<alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Some of them are rather pricy and they can get away with it because
>>> it's a captive market and a specialty item. Nice if you work there
>>> not so nice if you're an end user and have to shell out three or four
>>> grand for a device.
>>>
>>> On 9/9/10, Jared Wright<wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cool, thanks for the specifications! Amazing how unimpressive the
>>>> technology even in some of these newer adaptive devices is. No modern
>>>> smartphone would dare ship with a processor comparable to that in
>>>> the Apex, and yet the only way to acquire one is to take out the
>>>> equivalent of a car loan or get an agency of some sort to foot the
>>>> bill. But I"m teetering on the verge of a rant, so I'll stop. Again.
>>>> *smile*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 09/09/2010 01:10 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jared,
>>>>> It's X-Scale PXA272 at 416 MHz. Still, in terms of memory
>>>>> management, it is not that great - worse than Braille Sense family
>>>>> mostly because it runs under CE.NET 4.20. Apex uses Freescale i.MX31
>>>>> at 532 MHz (online
>>>>>
>> articles
>>
>>>>> mistakenly wrote that it uses Atom processor) with WinCE 6.0.
>>>>> I'd say porting KeySoft over to newer guys might produce confusion
>>>>> at first and might generate mixed reviews (which was the case when
>>>>> this whole subject was brought before members of BrailleNote List).
>>>>> The intention of the originator of this idea was to make espeak
>>>>> sound more like a combo of KNGMM (KeyNote Gold Multimedia) and
>>>>> Infovox 230 and to write open-source version of KeySoft (almost 15
>>>>> year old code) and rename it to avoid copyright lawsuits. After
>>>>> talking to an ex-KeySoft developer about this idea, I
>>>>>
>> can
>>
>>>>> see why - since KeySoft is HumanWare's property, HW would defend it
>>>>> to the fullest.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared
>>>>> Wright
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:49 AM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm doubting it could run an X server, which means no Gnome. But
>>>>> once you take that out you can get Linux distributions downright
> microscopic.
>>>>> I've seen some that could run on 8MB of memory, although I don't
>>>>> know if you could get audio output functioning on those very easily.
>>>>> But the nice thing about a Braille display is its data is all just
>>>>> text in, text out when you get right down to it. Basically anything
>>>>> you could run at the terminal would probably be fair game if you
>>>>> were willing to tinker, with only applications that require
>>>>> additional hardware support being sketchy such as music players or
>>>>> CD burners. Supporting the hardware would be a bigger challenge than
>>>>> the technical ceiling of the device in general, really. This is all
>>>>> very interesting, I've many times thought about saying Eff the whole
>>>>> thing and get one of my friends to try and help me sodder a new
>>>>> microchip into my BrailleNote mPower to do this sort of thing. It is
>>>>> just an XScale processor if my research is at all reliable. But I
> digress.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/09/2010 12:22 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am officially drooling. I based the 1 gb thing on how big the
>>>>>> distros like vinux seemed to be. How did you get it so small?
>>>>>> Does it run gnome? Or, is it all CLI? I was shown the icon during
>>>>>> my tech eval last year but it didn't have a braille display. I
>>>>>> chose the one I did because the braille display is integrated and
>>>>>> it seemed packed with features. I didn't know then that the daisy
>>>>>> reader couldn't read rfbd books, the word processor couldn't pull
>>>>>> up pdf files, the wi-fi card sucked big nasty rocks and never got
>>>>>> reception, you can't use it as a braille display for Jaws , and
>>>>>> you couldn't import xls files or export xls files. Does other cool
> stuff though. Leave me alone!
>>>>>> Everyone has a coping mechanism. It does other cool stuff! It does!
>>>>>> Honest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/9/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OH you said one or 2 gb to run Linux if you're running OE Linux
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>> can
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> do
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> it on much less we have 256 mb flash that it runs on and only 64
>>>>>>> mb
>>>>>>>
>> ram
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> course like I said before we have a 60 gb drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>>> Midence
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:44 AM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You know, it would be really awesome if someone came up with a
>>>>>>> braille note taker that ran on linux. I have a braille sense plus
>>>>>>> 32 and it has 16 gb of on board memory. You just need 1 or 2 gigs
>>>>>>> to run a vinux distro on a machine. It seems a waste to only have
>>>>>>> these devices run on windows mobile or, worse, as in the case of
>>>>>>> the bs 32, windows CE. They could implement their own desktop
>>>>>>> specifically taylored to the machine with their own apps on it but
>>>>>>> still give the user access to the command line interface and all
>>>>>>> the apps and tools that run in that. Wish I had a note taker I
>>>>>>> wasn't using and the funds not to go all shaky at the thought of
>>>>>>> experimenting with such an expensive device. Might provide hours of
> fun tinkering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/9/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>> That's my point as well: why spend time on it when there are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> alternatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> availible? as it is, the current keysoft.exe was specialized to a
>>>>>>>> given platform and OS combinations. Writing a modern port of old
>>>>>>>> KS would mean re-defining programming strategies to take
>>>>>>>> advantage of new CPU's, as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> well
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as redesigning interface and algorithms to give users a feell of
>>>>>>>>
>> using
>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> BrailleNote app on modern computers.
>>>>>>>> From what I read on the BrailleNote List on Wednsday and after
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> consulting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> former and current KeySoft developers, I came to the conclusion
>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> be done in theory, but creating such a clone is far from reality
>>>>>>>> at this point. I'd say a word from Jamal, Tyler and other expert
>>>>>>>> programmers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> might
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> resolve this situation.
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>>>> Midence
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:25 AM
>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, that's a blast from the past. I used Key Soft in high
>>>>>>>> school back in the early 1990's. My very first laptop was a
>>>>>>>> Keynote (predates keynote gold which I drooled over but never
>>>>>>>> got). I can
>>>>>>>>
>> see
>>
>>>>>>>> that app doing well in linux but am hard pressed to see how it
>>>>>>>> would be worth the trouble to prot to windows xp or windows 7.
>>>>>>>> There are many better mainstream alternatives to choose from.
>>>>>>>> Linux, though would probably be a good place for it since
>>>>>>>> accessible applications are fewer there from what I've been able
>>>>>>>> to find. MIght be a nice addition to Vinux.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/8/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>> Someone on the BrailleNote List is looking to port KeySoft for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> DOS/Win95
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> modern OS's such as Linux, Win7 and so forth. I think he is
>>>>>>>>> looking for someone to help him out with this task, with an
>>>>>>>>> eventual goal of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> releasing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as an open-source product under GPL license.
>>>>>>>>> If you want to contact him, write to jkenn337@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the
> list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
Other related posts:
