Braille + is only 1395
$ yes more than a phone but find me a phone with 60 gb drive true it's not a
phone it's a pda but that's what I want. If my Phone breaks I still have
all my music and books and I can send my phone in.
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:34 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Even the devices without Braille displays usually still run somewhere
near $2000. An unlocked Droid 2 is $569 or something. And the latter
blows the former out of the water in every technical metric possible. I
think there is some merit to the notion of a smaller customer base
meaning you have to increase your profit margin to make it worthwhile,
but I think mostly it's that it's just always been this way, and none of
these companies is going to be the one to take a hit on the bottom line
for what's right. That just isn't how business is done. Of course, if
one of them did, I think the consequences of such a move would surprise
some, Company X included.
On 09/09/2010 05:27 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
You really believe this stuff? Honestly? Even after industry insiders have
come on here and told you that they are making $5,500 per
product?
Wow ...
Take care,
Sina
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:07 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Hi,
Both CPU's use ARM architecture. I'd say the cost is related to low
customer base, exclusive contracts and braille display
technology as it stands.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:51 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Agreed. I have always wondered why it would kill HW and GWM to grab a
Snapdragon or comparable processor, a single or dual core at
1ghz, and put it into a braille notetaker. I realize it is not quite that
simple, that embeded systems are not as plug-and-play as
desktop or laptop systems, but still... would it really be that hard?
After all, the mPower uses an xScale processor while the Apex
runs on a FreeScale. Sure they also had to port Keysoft from ce4.2 to ce6,
but it still proves that it is possible to switch
processors. I wonder if any of the new processors are using the ARM
architecture, as I think that is what the Apex uses. Well, as
another poster said so well, this is nearing a rant so I will stop.
On 9/9/10, Alex Midence<alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Some of them are rather pricy and they can get away with it because
it's a captive market and a specialty item. Nice if you work there
not so nice if you're an end user and have to shell out three or four
grand for a device.
On 9/9/10, Jared Wright<wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Cool, thanks for the specifications! Amazing how unimpressive the
technology even in some of these newer adaptive devices is. No modern
smartphone would dare ship with a processor comparable to that in
the Apex, and yet the only way to acquire one is to take out the
equivalent of a car loan or get an agency of some sort to foot the
bill. But I"m teetering on the verge of a rant, so I'll stop. Again.
*smile*
On 09/09/2010 01:10 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Jared,
It's X-Scale PXA272 at 416 MHz. Still, in terms of memory
management, it is not that great - worse than Braille Sense family
mostly because it runs under CE.NET 4.20. Apex uses Freescale i.MX31
at 532 MHz (online
articles
mistakenly wrote that it uses Atom processor) with WinCE 6.0.
I'd say porting KeySoft over to newer guys might produce confusion
at first and might generate mixed reviews (which was the case when
this whole subject was brought before members of BrailleNote List).
The intention of the originator of this idea was to make espeak
sound more like a combo of KNGMM (KeyNote Gold Multimedia) and
Infovox 230 and to write open-source version of KeySoft (almost 15
year old code) and rename it to avoid copyright lawsuits. After
talking to an ex-KeySoft developer about this idea, I
can
see why - since KeySoft is HumanWare's property, HW would defend it
to the fullest.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared
Wright
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:49 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
I'm doubting it could run an X server, which means no Gnome. But
once you take that out you can get Linux distributions downright
microscopic.
I've seen some that could run on 8MB of memory, although I don't
know if you could get audio output functioning on those very easily.
But the nice thing about a Braille display is its data is all just
text in, text out when you get right down to it. Basically anything
you could run at the terminal would probably be fair game if you
were willing to tinker, with only applications that require
additional hardware support being sketchy such as music players or
CD burners. Supporting the hardware would be a bigger challenge than
the technical ceiling of the device in general, really. This is all
very interesting, I've many times thought about saying Eff the whole
thing and get one of my friends to try and help me sodder a new
microchip into my BrailleNote mPower to do this sort of thing. It is
just an XScale processor if my research is at all reliable. But I
digress.
On 09/09/2010 12:22 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
I am officially drooling. I based the 1 gb thing on how big the
distros like vinux seemed to be. How did you get it so small?
Does it run gnome? Or, is it all CLI? I was shown the icon during
my tech eval last year but it didn't have a braille display. I
chose the one I did because the braille display is integrated and
it seemed packed with features. I didn't know then that the daisy
reader couldn't read rfbd books, the word processor couldn't pull
up pdf files, the wi-fi card sucked big nasty rocks and never got
reception, you can't use it as a braille display for Jaws , and
you couldn't import xls files or export xls files. Does other cool
stuff though. Leave me alone!
Everyone has a coping mechanism. It does other cool stuff! It does!
Honest.
Alex M
On 9/9/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
OH you said one or 2 gb to run Linux if you're running OE Linux
you
can
do
it on much less we have 256 mb flash that it runs on and only 64
mb
ram
of
course like I said before we have a 60 gb drive.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
Midence
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:44 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
You know, it would be really awesome if someone came up with a
braille note taker that ran on linux. I have a braille sense plus
32 and it has 16 gb of on board memory. You just need 1 or 2 gigs
to run a vinux distro on a machine. It seems a waste to only have
these devices run on windows mobile or, worse, as in the case of
the bs 32, windows CE. They could implement their own desktop
specifically taylored to the machine with their own apps on it but
still give the user access to the command line interface and all
the apps and tools that run in that. Wish I had a note taker I
wasn't using and the funds not to go all shaky at the thought of
experimenting with such an expensive device. Might provide hours of
fun tinkering.
Alex M
On 9/9/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Alex,
That's my point as well: why spend time on it when there are
alternatives
availible? as it is, the current keysoft.exe was specialized to a
given platform and OS combinations. Writing a modern port of old
KS would mean re-defining programming strategies to take
advantage of new CPU's, as
well
as redesigning interface and algorithms to give users a feell of
using
a
BrailleNote app on modern computers.
From what I read on the BrailleNote List on Wednsday and after
consulting
former and current KeySoft developers, I came to the conclusion
that it
can
be done in theory, but creating such a clone is far from reality
at this point. I'd say a word from Jamal, Tyler and other expert
programmers
might
resolve this situation.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
Midence
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:25 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Now, that's a blast from the past. I used Key Soft in high
school back in the early 1990's. My very first laptop was a
Keynote (predates keynote gold which I drooled over but never
got). I can
see
that app doing well in linux but am hard pressed to see how it
would be worth the trouble to prot to windows xp or windows 7.
There are many better mainstream alternatives to choose from.
Linux, though would probably be a good place for it since
accessible applications are fewer there from what I've been able
to find. MIght be a nice addition to Vinux.
Alex M
On 9/8/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi folks,
Someone on the BrailleNote List is looking to port KeySoft for
DOS/Win95
to
modern OS's such as Linux, Win7 and so forth. I think he is
looking for someone to help him out with this task, with an
eventual goal of
releasing
as an open-source product under GPL license.
If you want to contact him, write to jkenn337@xxxxxxxxxx
Cheers,
Joseph
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