RE: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 17:27:57 -0400
You really believe this stuff? Honestly? Even after industry insiders have come
on here and told you that they are making $5,500 per
product?
Wow ...
Take care,
Sina
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:07 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Hi,
Both CPU's use ARM architecture. I'd say the cost is related to low customer
base, exclusive contracts and braille display
technology as it stands.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:51 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Agreed. I have always wondered why it would kill HW and GWM to grab a
Snapdragon or comparable processor, a single or dual core at
1ghz, and put it into a braille notetaker. I realize it is not quite that
simple, that embeded systems are not as plug-and-play as
desktop or laptop systems, but still... would it really be that hard? After
all, the mPower uses an xScale processor while the Apex
runs on a FreeScale. Sure they also had to port Keysoft from ce4.2 to ce6, but
it still proves that it is possible to switch
processors. I wonder if any of the new processors are using the ARM
architecture, as I think that is what the Apex uses. Well, as
another poster said so well, this is nearing a rant so I will stop.
On 9/9/10, Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Some of them are rather pricy and they can get away with it because
> it's a captive market and a specialty item. Nice if you work there
> not so nice if you're an end user and have to shell out three or four
> grand for a device.
>
> On 9/9/10, Jared Wright <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Cool, thanks for the specifications! Amazing how unimpressive the
>> technology even in some of these newer adaptive devices is. No modern
>> smartphone would dare ship with a processor comparable to that in
>> the Apex, and yet the only way to acquire one is to take out the
>> equivalent of a car loan or get an agency of some sort to foot the
>> bill. But I"m teetering on the verge of a rant, so I'll stop. Again.
>> *smile*
>>
>>
>> On 09/09/2010 01:10 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>> Hi Jared,
>>> It's X-Scale PXA272 at 416 MHz. Still, in terms of memory
>>> management, it is not that great - worse than Braille Sense family
>>> mostly because it runs under CE.NET 4.20. Apex uses Freescale i.MX31
>>> at 532 MHz (online
articles
>>> mistakenly wrote that it uses Atom processor) with WinCE 6.0.
>>> I'd say porting KeySoft over to newer guys might produce confusion
>>> at first and might generate mixed reviews (which was the case when
>>> this whole subject was brought before members of BrailleNote List).
>>> The intention of the originator of this idea was to make espeak
>>> sound more like a combo of KNGMM (KeyNote Gold Multimedia) and
>>> Infovox 230 and to write open-source version of KeySoft (almost 15
>>> year old code) and rename it to avoid copyright lawsuits. After
>>> talking to an ex-KeySoft developer about this idea, I
can
>>> see why - since KeySoft is HumanWare's property, HW would defend it
>>> to the fullest.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared
>>> Wright
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:49 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>
>>> I'm doubting it could run an X server, which means no Gnome. But
>>> once you take that out you can get Linux distributions downright
>>> microscopic.
>>> I've seen some that could run on 8MB of memory, although I don't
>>> know if you could get audio output functioning on those very easily.
>>> But the nice thing about a Braille display is its data is all just
>>> text in, text out when you get right down to it. Basically anything
>>> you could run at the terminal would probably be fair game if you
>>> were willing to tinker, with only applications that require
>>> additional hardware support being sketchy such as music players or
>>> CD burners. Supporting the hardware would be a bigger challenge than
>>> the technical ceiling of the device in general, really. This is all
>>> very interesting, I've many times thought about saying Eff the whole
>>> thing and get one of my friends to try and help me sodder a new
>>> microchip into my BrailleNote mPower to do this sort of thing. It is
>>> just an XScale processor if my research is at all reliable. But I digress.
>>>
>>> On 09/09/2010 12:22 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am officially drooling. I based the 1 gb thing on how big the
>>>> distros like vinux seemed to be. How did you get it so small?
>>>> Does it run gnome? Or, is it all CLI? I was shown the icon during
>>>> my tech eval last year but it didn't have a braille display. I
>>>> chose the one I did because the braille display is integrated and
>>>> it seemed packed with features. I didn't know then that the daisy
>>>> reader couldn't read rfbd books, the word processor couldn't pull
>>>> up pdf files, the wi-fi card sucked big nasty rocks and never got
>>>> reception, you can't use it as a braille display for Jaws , and
>>>> you couldn't import xls files or export xls files. Does other cool stuff
>>>> though. Leave me alone!
>>>> Everyone has a coping mechanism. It does other cool stuff! It does!
>>>> Honest.
>>>>
>>>> Alex M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/9/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OH you said one or 2 gb to run Linux if you're running OE Linux
>>>>> you
can
>>>>>
>>> do
>>>
>>>>> it on much less we have 256 mb flash that it runs on and only 64
>>>>> mb
ram
>>>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>>> course like I said before we have a 60 gb drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>> Midence
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:44 AM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>
>>>>> You know, it would be really awesome if someone came up with a
>>>>> braille note taker that ran on linux. I have a braille sense plus
>>>>> 32 and it has 16 gb of on board memory. You just need 1 or 2 gigs
>>>>> to run a vinux distro on a machine. It seems a waste to only have
>>>>> these devices run on windows mobile or, worse, as in the case of
>>>>> the bs 32, windows CE. They could implement their own desktop
>>>>> specifically taylored to the machine with their own apps on it but
>>>>> still give the user access to the command line interface and all
>>>>> the apps and tools that run in that. Wish I had a note taker I
>>>>> wasn't using and the funds not to go all shaky at the thought of
>>>>> experimenting with such an expensive device. Might provide hours of fun
>>>>> tinkering.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/9/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>> That's my point as well: why spend time on it when there are
>>>>>>
>>> alternatives
>>>
>>>>>> availible? as it is, the current keysoft.exe was specialized to a
>>>>>> given platform and OS combinations. Writing a modern port of old
>>>>>> KS would mean re-defining programming strategies to take
>>>>>> advantage of new CPU's, as
>>>>>>
>>> well
>>>
>>>>>> as redesigning interface and algorithms to give users a feell of
using
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> BrailleNote app on modern computers.
>>>>>> From what I read on the BrailleNote List on Wednsday and after
>>>>>>
>>> consulting
>>>
>>>>>> former and current KeySoft developers, I came to the conclusion
>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> can
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> be done in theory, but creating such a clone is far from reality
>>>>>> at this point. I'd say a word from Jamal, Tyler and other expert
>>>>>> programmers
>>>>>>
>>> might
>>>
>>>>>> resolve this situation.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>> Midence
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:25 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, that's a blast from the past. I used Key Soft in high
>>>>>> school back in the early 1990's. My very first laptop was a
>>>>>> Keynote (predates keynote gold which I drooled over but never
>>>>>> got). I can
see
>>>>>> that app doing well in linux but am hard pressed to see how it
>>>>>> would be worth the trouble to prot to windows xp or windows 7.
>>>>>> There are many better mainstream alternatives to choose from.
>>>>>> Linux, though would probably be a good place for it since
>>>>>> accessible applications are fewer there from what I've been able
>>>>>> to find. MIght be a nice addition to Vinux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/8/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>> Someone on the BrailleNote List is looking to port KeySoft for
>>>>>>>
>>> DOS/Win95
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> modern OS's such as Linux, Win7 and so forth. I think he is
>>>>>>> looking for someone to help him out with this task, with an
>>>>>>> eventual goal of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> releasing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> as an open-source product under GPL license.
>>>>>>> If you want to contact him, write to jkenn337@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>
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--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
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