Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
- From: "Jackie McBride" <abletec@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:04:45 -0700
Ok, I've stayed out of this but maybe I'll have a go as well.
First, I think whatever programming classes/resources this young man
might have at his local middle/high school are the way to go. It's
really tough being self-taught (this I know from experience) & it's
harder still as a very young adult to take that kind of initiative on
one's own. Yes, I realize there are some very talented young people
on this list who have done that, but they'll tell u, as I will, that
it's a rough row to hoe & not for the faint-of-heart. The class,
though, may need to somehow be adapted until our young friend gets any
access technology issues that he may encounter resolved. To minimize
these, a programming language that can be used with console output
might be adviseable.
I myself began programming in Basic back in the dos days. B4 any1
starts laughing, I did so because my clinical billing program at the
time was unable to do some really basic stuff like sort entries by
date, & I really needed that done for tax purposes, etc. It also
didn't have an appointment facility. The truth is I was able to get
those done in a relatively short period of time. So one has the
satisfaction of being able to accomplish something quickly.
It wasn't too helpful when I started learning C, though, & I initially
found C really frustrating because of the seeming difficulty of
performing even trivial tasks. Basic at the time had only untyped
global variables, subroutines as opposed to functions, & the concepts
of data types, local variables, functions, & scope, never mind structs
& pointers & unions & linked lists, etc., seemed overwhelming. Even
seemingly simple string manipulation, which was so easy in basic, was
a real pita in c until I got the hang of it.
I think for a beginner programmer, especially a very young one,
something that will produce nearly instant gratification is probably
the way to go, & it is, I think, why most beginning programmer high
school classes focus on basic or something similar.
I think the National Federation of the Blind also has something called
a "mentors" program, which pairs a blind individual in a given
profession w/another one aspiring to that goal. Their website is:
www.nfb.org
This is not an endorsement of any organization or programs which they
may sponsor & I possess little or no personal knowledge regarding
either.
On 11/12/07, james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Vili,
> I come from a procedural background. I started with COBOL. I have made
> several fits and starts at other languages. I have not yet found a way to
> get over the OO learning curve. One reason is that I have not found a
> project that really interests me. The other is that the books I am reading
> teach the procedural side of languages like Python and then move into OO.
> It seems like I would need to come up with a relatively big project to make
> it worth doing in OO. I keep saying to myself that whatever I am thinking
> of doing at the time is easier to do procedurally. I never find a
> compelling enough reason to do OO. I read about how great it is in the
> programming material I look at, but some how, that never translates into my
> learning because I get intimidated by all the setting up of all the objects
> just to get something simple done. There has to be some middle ground in
> all of this somewhere.
>
> Finally, I don't know enough to be able to tell if whatever project I am
> thinking of doing is best to do in procedural or OO.
>
> And one more thing while I'm rambling. It seems like OO really doesn't
> model the real world even though the OO material I have read to this point
> says it does. I should probably save that for another email though.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
>
> "Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the
> world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
>
>
>
>
> "Veli-Pekka
> Tätilä"
> <vtatila@xxxxxxxx To
> dent.oulu.fi> programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent by: cc
> programmingblind-
> bounce@freelists. Subject
> org Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to
> Program for the Blind
>
> 11/12/2007 09:14
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
> programmingblind@
> freelists.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Arnold,
> I'm not sure Java might be the best start, either, although it is widely
> popular. In our Uni in Finland Java is used mostly procedurally and
> there's a separate course on object oriented programming, also in Java.
>
> The authors of how to Think like a Computer Scientist, the PYthon
> edition. argue that one of the strong points of multi-paradigm langs is
> that you don't have to cover objects first. They clame it is hard to
> teach object first, since to really understand them one needs knowledge
> of variables and scope, functions, operators, parameters and all the OO
> jargon for relatively non-magical things. WIth a multi paradigm language
> hello world is just like:
>
> puts "hello world"
>
> Or something like that, and you can start with very simple procedural
> concepts, and cover functions, objects etc... when people are ready to
> tacle them. I still recall trying to understand OOp from a procedural
> background and all this talk of objects sending messages to each other
> and having contracts just threw me off. But statements like basic
> objects are just like structs with syntactic sugar for calling functions
> taking structs, and no direct access to struct members allowed, are
> closer to a procedural programmer mind set, and are more descriptive,
> too. There's even a book about object oriented programming in c, though
> I wouldn't start with C. Perl's object orientation heavily relies on
> procedural concepts and references, too, but Perl is a bit too
> specialized to start with I'd say e.g. no separate float, string and int
> handling, plus abnormally strong string processing in the core. I'd
> start out with a conventional, statically and strongly typed language at
> any case, since it is, in my view, easier to see some advantages of both
> static and dynamic typing, if you have learned static typing first. but
> that's just my experience, I'm just a student.
>
> --
> With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
> http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila
>
> Arnold Bailey wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Jared had my intentions right. I only meant to use it as a very basic tool
> >for interactive use to show a first time middle schooler what a program
> is.
> >It is the interactive use that is a plus. My scenario doesn't require
> >indentation, etc. After that first session I am using Java.
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Jackie McBride
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