Sam, I am in 100% agreement with you on this, hence my reference to William’s
suggestions below. I just find the legal arguments to be a distraction from
the essential point that you make. To take it a step further, I believe that
any club member who observes unsafe laser use should immediately bring in to
the attention of the user as well as club officers and that consequences should
ensue from such behavior.
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of insanas
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 1:03 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Eric, it is a problem if someone has a very powerful laser and they negligently
hurt someone. I am asking PAS members as our President, not as a lawyer, to be
very careful with high powered lasers so as not to injure others no matter what
you think the law says.
Sam
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eric@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Date: 12/09/2015 12:19 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Hi –
Again, as I pointed out in my 11/25 email, the law is against selling a laser
that is over 5mw as a “laser pointer.” there is absolutely nothing wrong with
making or selling higher powered lasers as display devices, scientific devices,
theater equipment, etc. It’s about labelling. What they are trying to avoid
is people buying high-power lasers to use as toys or for presentations where
they are way too bright and present a (slight) risk of possible injury.
Astronomy falls under scientific and/or display use and is perfectly legal all
around.
Lawyers aside, can we please have some common sense here! Thanks, William for
your intelligent email below; as you point out even if your 200mw laser is
incorrectly labelled as 5mw, that’s not your problem but the seller’s.
That said, I hear all AZ police are being equipped with laser power detectors
and will be randomly stopping people to check for FDA compliance. “Are you
carrying any lasers in the vehicle tonight, sir?”
Eric
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pete Turner
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 12:03 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
William,
There is a federal law (FDA regulation supported by multiple acts of Congress)
against making or distributing any Class 3 laser pointer with a greater power
than 5mW. However there appears to be a loophole in that the regulation
doesn't seem to prohibit buying one, only making or selling!!
Pete Turner
[http://taskbox.maidpro.com/macswebservice/templates/images/MP-Lockup-Bubbles-email-sig.png]
MaidPro North Phoenix
602.765.1964
www.maidpro.com/phoenix-north<http://www.maidpro.com/phoenix-north>
On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Redacted sender insanas for DMARC
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thanks for the laser info, William. I guess the main thing is for everyone who
has one to be very careful. Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: William Finch
<psychogilgamesh@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:psychogilgamesh@xxxxxxxxx>>
To: pasmembers <pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Tue, Dec 8, 2015 11:21 pm
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/rules-general/uslaws/uslaws.html is a site
has a list of laser laws and links to the proper local or federal resource.
Note, I have no affiliation with this site and don't know if it's missing any
resources. This is not intended as legal counsel,
FDA regulations are more aimed toward protecting consumers from buying a high
powered laser that's mislabeled as a low powered one and blinding a cat or
child with it. However, this does often happen, like with the example Terry
Dancer sent out. It's labeled as 5mW but it's most likely a 200mW.
I know it's, it's against federal law to aim a laser at an aircraft or into a
flight path. It's also against Arizona law to aim a laser at an occupied plane
or at a peace officer. I don't think these laws mention the power of the laser,
but I may be wrong. Also, more laws may have been added since I had last looked.
On topic of common sense w/ lasers:
1) Lasers are not toys and should be treated about the same respect as a
firearm.
2) If you're not sure what it is, don't aim a laser at it, it might be a plane
or worse. If needed, circle it, instead of pointing at it.
3) Be mindful of ricochets and reflections.
4) Avoid the horizon. The first 20 degrees is much more dangerous. Being at
that angle, you're more likely to shine into the cockpit of a plane.
Some other resources worth reading:
Some Pointers on Using Laser Pointers
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/some-pointers-on-the-use-of-laser-pointers/
A Look at the Hazards of Green Laser Pointers
http://www.universetoday.com/101171/a-look-at-the-hazards-of-green-laser-pointers/
ASSA Guidelines for the Safe Use of Hand Held Laser Pointers in Astronomy
https://www.assa.org.au/media/16425/laserguidelines.pdf
Laser Pointer Safety - Tips for outdoor use
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/tips/tips.html
Position Statement of The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada On Green Laser
Pointer Usage
http://rasc.ca/news/position-statement-green-laser-pointer-usage
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 12:04 AM, insanas
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Alex, thanks for searching Arizona law. I must caution us on doing our own
legal research. There are Federal, state, county and city ordinances and laws.
There are laws made by legislatures, laws made by courts (case law),
administrative laws , common laws, some may say too many laws. There are law
review articles, legislative histories, Constitutional laws, etc... It could
take several hours of research and analysis by an attorney with access to law
libraries and or computer legal research software. I am just saying it isn't as
simple as it sounds.
I do not have a copy of our insurance policy. It could be Mike, Terri, Don ,
Bruce...? I am asking anyone who does gave a copy, to let us know. I would
imagine Eric gets the insurance premium so he could request a copy of the
policy with all riders. He could also call the ins Co to see what their
opinion is about laser damage coverage. Sometimes the ins co will exclude such
coverage or may charge extra for certain coverage. I have no idea. I think the
PAS board of directors (the 7 officers and 2 members at large) may want to make
a policy decision on proceding with this inquiry. If any of our board wants to
contact the rest of the board members, please email all other board members
with your ideas.
I hate to blow this thing out of proportion but the several emails from PAS
members suggest we may want to look further into this question. Sam
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smart
-------- Original message --------
From: Alex Vrenios <axv@xxxxxxx<mailto:axv@xxxxxxx>>
Date: 11/25/2015 10:57 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Sam,
Do you know if the insurance PAS carries against “tripping over tripod legs,
etc.” issues covers an accidental laser beam into an eye? I don’t know if a
flash past someone’s eye can do any damage (I sincerely doubt it), but just in
case it can, it might be comforting to know that we’re covered, even if that
accidental condition isn’t explicitly stated.
By the way, from what I could find online, AZ law says shining a laser at a
“peace officer,” or into an occupied aircraft is unlawful. I found no mention
of any reference to laser color or power limits.
Alex
On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:06 PM, insanas (Redacted sender "insanas" for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I am not allowed to give legal advice now that I have retired after 35 years of
practicing.
You asked what I would do. I think the FDA for the last 35 years has given more
breaks to commercial entities and less to consumers. So when the FDA suggests
something is dangerous to consumersb, I wouldn't want to chance hurting
someone. As President of PAS I suggest we all be careful with anything that
could hurt anyone at our star parties. If PAS wants to hire an attorney for
hundreds of dollars for a legal opinion, we could do that. I just suggest we be
as careful as we can unless anyone in our club demands that we get a legal
opinion.
Sam
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eric@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Date: 11/25/2015 8:43 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Sam, I have to respectfully disagree – it’s Congress that makes laws and there
are no federal laws (and no AZ state laws) restricting the sale, possession and
proper use of higher-powered laser pointers. I think the FDA’s use of the term
“illegal” is unfortunate at best, a deliberate obfuscation at worst. Their
issues m
