Sam,
Do you know if the insurance PAS carries against “tripping over tripod legs,
etc.” issues covers an accidental laser beam into an eye? I don’t know if a
flash past someone’s eye can do any damage (I sincerely doubt it), but just in
case it can, it might be comforting to know that we’re covered, even if that
accidental condition isn’t explicitly stated.
By the way, from what I could find online, AZ law says shining a laser at a
“peace officer,” or into an occupied aircraft is unlawful. I found no mention
of any reference to laser color or power limits.
Alex
On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:06 PM, insanas (Redacted sender "insanas" for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am not allowed to give legal advice now that I have retired after 35 years
of practicing.
You asked what I would do. I think the FDA for the last 35 years has given
more breaks to commercial entities and less to consumers. So when the FDA
suggests something is dangerous to consumersb, I wouldn't want to chance
hurting someone. As President of PAS I suggest we all be careful with
anything that could hurt anyone at our star parties. If PAS wants to hire an
attorney for hundreds of dollars for a legal opinion, we could do that. I
just suggest we be as careful as we can unless anyone in our club demands
that we get a legal opinion.
Sam
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 11/25/2015 8:43 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Sam, I have to respectfully disagree – it’s Congress that makes laws and
there are no federal laws (and no AZ state laws) restricting the sale,
possession and proper use of higher-powered laser pointers. I think the
FDA’s use of the term “illegal” is unfortunate at best, a deliberate
obfuscation at worst. Their issues mostly have to do with sales for a
particular purpose – i.e. if you buy a 100mw laser sold as a “Laser pointer”,
it is out of compliance and the seller or manufacturer could be subject to a
recall. Also higher powered lasers are subject to very specific labelling
requirements with similar regulatory recourse. In no event is any individual
subject to any legal or regulatory action for buying, possessing and properly
using a device.
This is similar to say when a toy company has a product recall and may be
subject to fines or other remedies – there is no obligation legal or
otherwise on the part of any individual to return the affected item.
Now were you to point that puppy at police helicopter, then you’re truly
talking illegal and you will go to jail. BTW, virtually every laser-related
arrest in the US to date has involved young males and police/police
helicopters.
As a side note, you mention “thousands of people who violate the law” – isn’t
it a pretty universal legal tenet that when a law is unenforced,
unenforceable and violated en masse that it’s a defective law? (Although in
this case there is no violation because there is no law).
Anyway this reminds me of a real estate lawyer I once used who after giving
me a long string of instructions and warnings, added humorously: “and if you
listen to me, you’ll never even get out of bed in the morning.”
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:09 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
I would not want to violate federal regulations stating that lasers over 5 mw
are illegal. As to why so many people get away with it is like so many laws,
there are not enough enforcement personnel to really stop the thousands of
people who violate the law. If someone got injured with an "illegal" laser, I
would not want to be the defendant in the civil suit. When someone commits a
violation of a law that hurts a person, some insurance companies refuse to
cover the defendant because the act is not just negligence but a willful
violation of a law and most insurance policies just cover negligent conduct.
Also, violating a law could lead to punitive damages. I no longer practice
law, so am not allowed to give legal advice, I just personally wouldn't want
to use an "illegal" laser. I can show a person an object in the sky with my 5
mw green laser even in the city. However, it is not bright enough for others
standing around to see it other than the person who I am standing next to.
Take care, Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eric@xxxxxxxxxx>>
To: pasmembers <pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 6:10 pm
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Yeah, well that’s one on those funny things – there are no statutes making
them illegal – it’s basically declaratory on the part of the FDA and I think
their use of the word “illegal” is more than a bit squishy. I know of no
instance of any interference with the sale, possession or (proper) use of
variously powered lasers. Large numbers of members of astronomy clubs in the
area own use lasers between 25 and 1000 milliwatts without problems…. Sam,
what do you think?
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?>] On Behalf Of Peter Turner
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:39 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Eric,
I did some further checking using the site you gave and others. There are
FDA regulations that restrict manufacturing and sales of laser “pointers” to
under 5 milliwatts. They can enforce recalls for mislabeled lasers and lasers
greater than 5mW in power. In addition the FDA’s advice for consumers is:
Audience: Consumers
Product: Hand-held laser pointers that emit 5 milliwatts (mW) output power or
higher.
The FDA recognizes that there are varied and legitimate uses of laser
pointers, including giving presentations, aligning and leveling in
construction, providing gun sights, and pointing to stars. Even lasers under
the 5mW limit can cause harm if not used properly. The FDA recommends the
following:
· Do NOT buy laser pointers for children or allow them to use them.
These products are not toys.
· Do NOT buy any laser pointer that emits more than 5 mW output power
and does not have the output power printed on the warning label affixed to
the pointer. Hand-held laser pointers over 5 mW and those that are not
properly labeled are illegal and potentially dangerous.
· Do NOT aim or shine laser pointers at any person, pet, vehicle, or
aircraft directly, or through reflection by mirrors or other shiny surfaces.
· Check the output power of any laser pointer that you own. If it has
an output greater than 5 mW, dispose of it safely according to local
environmental protection guidelines.
· In the event of injury, immediately consult your eye doctor.
This can be found at:
http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/Safety/AlertsandNotices/ucm237129.htm
<http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/Safety/AlertsandNotices/ucm237129.htm>
Pete Turner
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Eric Steinberg
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:00 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Not true. To my knowledge there are no legal restrictions (other than some
possible import restrictions) on them other than not shining them at aircraft
or similar nuisance uses. Check out laserpointersafety.com.
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Peter Turner
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:57 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
FYI: 5mW is the strongest laser that is legally allowed.
Pete Turner
MaidPro Phoenix-North – voted Best of Phoenix Magazine
19235 N Cave Creek Rd. Suite 106, Phoenix, AZ
E: peteturner@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:peteturner@xxxxxxxxxxx> P: 602-923-7900 W:
maidpro.com/phoenix-north <http://www.maidpro.com/phoenix-north>
Face
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/MaidPro-Phoenix-North/1797230277168150?fref=ts>Book:
facebook.com/maidprophoenix <about:blank> Twitter:
twitter.com/maidprophoenix <about:blank>
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Eric Steinberg
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:53 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
So your 5 mw laser is as bright as William’s 250? Sounds like one is way
underrated or vice-versa.
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Terry Dancer
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:49 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
Oh trust me. This thing is very underrated. You can see the beam on mine
while standing under a streetlight. The one that William has is rated as I
think 250mw
And mine is just slightly dimmer. Barely noticeable
Sent from my iPhone 5S
On Nov 25, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eric@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I don’t think a 5mw laser is going to be bright enough in the middle of town.
I’d recommend at least a 25 or 30mw pointer.
E
From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Terry Dancer
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:15 PM
To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Fwd: green laser pointer
For $10 you can't beat it! Especially since Orion sells them for $60 and
they're not very bright and use alkaline batteries. This one comes with a
rechargeable battery and a charger
Sent from my iPhone 5S
On Nov 25, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Leah S <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
oops, I meant "to her". I forgot to look at the name of the person who asked
the question.
On 11/25/2015 12:47 PM, Leah S wrote:
thanks, Terry, I will forward that to him. looks like a great deal!
On 11/24/2015 1:09 PM, Terry Dancer wrote:
This is the one I have. It's super bright
Look at this on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/390908201146
<http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/390908201146>
5mW 532nm Green Laser Pointer Pen Beam Light Lazer + 18650 Battery + Charger
Sent from my iPhone 5S
On Nov 24, 2015, at 10:35 AM, Leah S <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
does anyone have advice for Laura about a green laser pointer?
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:
green laser pointer
Date:
Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:33:18 -0800
From:
lgieselman74@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:lgieselman74@xxxxxxxxx>
To:
Astronomy-Questions@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Astronomy-Questions@xxxxxxxxx>
<Astronomy-Questions@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:Astronomy-Questions@xxxxxxxxx>
Hi,
I am wondering which laser pointer you recommend for stargazing in our
backyard? We have a 5mW, but it doesn’t seem to be bright enough all of the
time to see what others are pointing at. Could you also suggest where to
purchase from? Thanks so much! We attended a telescope presentation you did
at Bookmans a few months ago and that was really helpful!!
Laura
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