This thread seems to have forked: one strand is the often hashed over "database independence" anti-pattern, and the other is the equally often debated "where should I build my application tier" (called "database vs application" above). On the latter subject, Toon Koppelaar has already been cited. I recommend his blog and particularly yesterday's fascinating post <http://thehelsinkideclaration.blogspot.com/2009/03/jee-and-traditional-mvc-part-2.html>on where the M,V and C in an Model/View/Controller application can reside. Read it and laugh... Best is that he honestly considers pros and cons rather than religiously sticking to a one size fits all prejudice. Regards Nigel