Is there anything unique about where those objects are? You could probably
figure out a way to loop through all of those objects in there to announce each
of the info for all of them. It looks like the info is readily available in the
name so I name change might do it but I'm not certain
Sent from my heavily encrypted iPhone.
Please disregard errors as this is a smaller device.
On Apr 14, 2016, at 06:11, Damien Sykes-Pendleton
<damien@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Derek,
The log reads as follows:
INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo
(13:00:34):
Developer info for navigator object:
name: u'1727 - Childwall, Lancashire, England'
role: ROLE_WINDOW
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: False
Python object: <NVDAObjects.IAccessible.WindowRoot object at 0x04C93DD0>
Python class mro: (<class 'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.WindowRoot'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.GenericWindow'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>,
<class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: None
location: (35, 124, 344, 16)
value: None
appModule: <'appModuleHandler' (appName u'ancquest', process ID 6864) at
address 4adba30>
appModule.productName: u'Ancestral Quest 14.0'
appModule.productVersion: u'14.00.0028.0'
TextInfo: <class 'displayModel.DisplayModelTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 1574452
windowClassName: u'Static'
windowControlID: 289
windowStyle: 1342177292
windowThreadID: 9772
windowText: u'1727 - Childwall, Lancashire, England'
displayText: u'1727 - Childwall, Lancashire, England'
IAccessibleObject: <POINTER(IAccessible) ptr=0x8f6ad70 at 4e42b70>
IAccessibleChildID: 0
IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=1574452L, objectID=0, childID=0L
IAccessible accName: u'1727 - Childwall, Lancashire, England'
IAccessible accRole: ROLE_SYSTEM_WINDOW
IAccessible accState: STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SYSTEM_VALID (1048576)
IAccessible accDescription: None
IAccessible accValue: None
I notice it is only giving us the birth year. I’m wondering if this is
because of multiline or some other kind of separation? For some reason
according to object navigation the control seems to be separated into six
objects.
Kind regards,
Damien.
From: derek riemer
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 12:39 AM
To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda-addons] Re: Developing Addons - The best way to get started?
My first advice is to try and turn off simple navigation in review settings.
(I created a configuration profile for this). Now, use object navigation to
see if you can spot that text. If you can, can you press nvda+f1, copy the
rest of the log from there to the bottom and paste it here (assuming it's not
private info in any way)? That is called the developer info. we should
probably see where that information is, and if it actually changes at all.
Then, we would either create event_BLABLABLA or something. We might either
design the add-on with an overlay class, or with an simple events on the
global plugin, and then speak it. The idea is to figure out where that text
is, and then a way in which to figure out if the object the event is fired on
is that object or if it's another object. also, we need to figure out if the
event ever gains keyboard focus, as that we can fix by telling NVDA to set
focus to it.
Does any of this not make sense (should I explain any particular concept in
more detail)?
On 4/13/2016 4:45 PM, Damien Sykes-Pendleton wrote:
Hi,
The program is a family tree builder – so far the only accessible one I have
found.
When you select a person in the primary navigation area it shows up summary
information for them, (date and place of birth, date, place, and age at
marriage, and date, place and age at death). This read automatically when I
used to use JAWS, so I’m guessing it’s a simple case of trying to tell NVDA
where that information is, and/or how to access it so that it too can speak
the information automatically.
Kind regards,
Damien.
From: derek riemer
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 11:30 PM
To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda-addons] Re: Developing Addons - The best way to get started?
Can you give an example of what the text you want spoken is and when it
isn't spoken?
On 4/13/2016 1:36 PM, Damien Sykes-Pendleton wrote:
Hi there,
Not sure if my messages came through yesterday, so sending it again.
When I began the process of trying to learn addon development, I attempted
to write an application-based addon that would read textual information
that was otherwise being overlooked. I may have used another addon as a
starting point but I had no idea as to what the actual issue was or what my
particular circumstances were, other than the text was not being read when
it should be.
What I vaguely know is that the system creates controls as physical
graphics with different identifying factors such as locations and what
should happen if it is activated that make it what it is. I know nothing
about how it works in depth – I’m not even sure if it is a control object
that is at fault, since the information is text only.
I can’t even refer back to my script, my computer crashed since then, and
as it didn’t work I don’t think that would necessarily help anyway.
One thing I did manage is to apply the first example app module to the
application I want to change as opposed to Notepad, I.E. making it beep on
the gain focus event. Even if I so much as moved the cursor, pressed Tab,
went into menus etc, it beeped all the time, so not sure if that’s to do
with keyboard input or whatever. If so then that’s not the issue. Key
commands are being recognised fine, it’s just what is, or in this case
isn’t, being spoken by NVDA itself.
I really would like to tackle this and nip it in the bud. I doubt at this
moment in time I could work on NVDA itself given my limited knowledge of
how both the codebase and the project management works, so I guess the
least I can do is to write addons.
Thanks.
Kind regards,
Damien.
From: derek riemer
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:59 PM
To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda-addons] Re: Developing Addons - The best way to get started?
Hi,
It really depends what you intend your add-on to do. Do you think some code
should execute? Test it by either importing logHandler, and logging with
one of the methods there, or use tones.beep to beep as the first thing that
happens in that function. Also, it shouldn't play the error sound unless
you are running master or next. Look for errors in your log, test your
add-on with master or next, or go to the NVDA python console and run >>>
import versionInfo
Then the sound should happen. You could write an add-on to set this to trueversionInfo.isTestVersion = True
at NVDA Startup (Hint) just putting that in a python file in the
globalPlugins folder should do it. Do not be afraid to ask us questions if
you have a hypothesis about some control, and a way in which you are trying
to make it work. I promise you, there are no dumb questions here. If it is
a script, be sure to bind it to a gesture. If it is one of the meriad of
events, then you may very well just have to play with trying multiple
events until you find the right one. That's where making NVDA play
different tones for different events is super helpful.
HTH
On 4/12/2016 10:32 AM, Damien Sykes-Pendleton wrote:
Hi there,
OK. So I now have a fair grasp of the Python language. Luckily because
I’ve tried so many times before and failed it was just a case of
refreshing my memory as to what different things meant, and reading more
in-depth those things that I didn’t understand. I think it kind of helped
that the easy stuff was, well, easy, and the harder stuff I have covered
before in other languages, but they are termed or written differently. I
think one thing that confused me a lot when I started out is how all
classes inherit from object, when an instance of a class is also called an
object. Wow...Deep stuff.
Also, this time, I have seen Python code in action, having installed
Python itself. It’s odd, but I think that helped me more than I realised
it would. Reading code and then seeing it work seems to impress things
more firmly into memory (Human, that is).
Now that I’ve done that, it seems when I tried this before that the thing
I was struggling with most were NVDA concepts. There were no errors
triggered (At least I don’t think), but the addon itself that I created
didn’t work.
Is there anything else I need to look at? The development guide has become
a little easier in some respects but I’m still in the dark about others,
for instance application controls, accessing them, reading them, event
triggers, etc.
Thanks.
Kind regards,
Damien.
From: derek riemer
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 6:17 PM
To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda-addons] Re: Developing Addons - The best way to get started?
Hi,
Please feel free to ask us (especially me) anyy development questions you
have. I can try to help. Please believe me when I say I know where you are
coming from, I had to learn all this myself, and it is damn hard. Even if
you ask "This button is not speaking, How should I try to make it speak?"
I will try to walk you in the right direction.
On 4/8/2016 5:56 AM, Damien Sykes-Pendleton wrote:
Hi James,
Again. This proves just how much, or little, knowledge I have on this
subject. I always assumed that the information that NVDA uses to evaluate
the functionality or purpose of a control was through the Windows API.
When I wrote my first addon that didn't involve copying and pasting from
an example, it was to read content that NVDA didn't recognise on its own
for whatever reason, that other screen readers did. This didn't work. My
theory for this is that I was pretty much guessing what I had to do to
get it to work, and of course that is not the way to understand your own
code. It helps to understand what your code needs to do, something of
which I understood very little, if not nothing at all. If you can't
understand that, you need to be able to understand what you want to do.
Although I know what I want to do in terms of functionality, translating
that into code is very difficult, given that I don't know about all the
underlying structures such as in-depth control information (ID, handle,
class etc), NVDA objects, accessibility platforms, the list goes on and
on.
As for learning Python itself, this is not so much the problem as
remembering every single thing I'm reading. When I look at a Python
tutorial, I'm thinking, yes this makes sense. Sounds good to me. Oh wow,
I've finished the tutorial. Let's go back to addons. Oh wait, what did
the tutorial say about this? I don't remember that part...Look back at
the tutorial. Oh, it's not in here. This must be an NVDA specific
reference. Either that, or, Ah yes, I remember this now. Now how was the
addon guide referencing this?
I'm trying to explain it the best way I can, because there isn't one
specific example or situation that I can pinpoint without referencing
something else, it's all linked, hence the massive confusion which, if
we're talking code, is making my brain go into an infinite loop.
Kind regards,
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: James Scholes
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 12:25 PM
To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda-addons] Re: Developing Addons - The best way to get
started?
Replies inline.
Damien Sykes-Pendleton wrote:
Well if we're constraining ourselves to the facts, I can only really
say what I have said before, in that the developer guide assumes a
good working knowledge of Python and NVDA's internal workings,
neither of which I feel I have enough of to really get going.
First, tackle Python. You need a good, working knowledge of the
language to write NVDA add-ons. This will never change, no matter how
much documentation is written. Create some small Python projects which
make use of object-oriented programming, inheritance, wxPython.
It is incredibly important to understand that creating NVDA add-ons is
not at all like writing JAWS scripts. With JAWS scripting, the language
is proprietary and the creators of that language decide in advance what
functionality you have access to. NVDA not only gives you the full
power of the Python language, but also lets you write code which runs in
the same environment as NVDA's core, meaning that you can literally do
whatever you like, only constrained by your imagination and knowledge.
Naturally, this provides a lot of room for error, so NVDA add-on writing
often comes with a lot of responsibility. That is why there is a
higher barrier to entry. It's up to you to decide whether that barrier
is worth scaling or not. But nobody, on this list or otherwise,
will ever be able to create documentation that explains every possible
aspect of creating NVDA add-ons. Having said that, the community has
created some extra documentation, which I will leave it up to them to
share.
I have looked into Python, both on the official language tutorial
and from Learn Python the Hard Way. Although these are both good
resources, they are also very extensive to the point that by the
time I have read them and gone back to the developer guide, I'm
trying to conceptualise everything else into Python terms rather than
NVDA terms
I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. NVDA is Python. Granted, to
write a good add-on, you have to be aware of some of NVDA's internals,
but really, you need to give us examples of what you're trying to do and
why it's posing a problem. If you have a good understanding of Python
as I said above, writing NVDA add-on boilerplate will be easy.
some of which can be done but easily forgotten, or others which can't
be done at all.
Again, I have no idea what you mean. What Python features,
functionality or concepts are you having difficulty translating into
valid concepts to be used in an NVDA add-on?
Then, as I have also said before, there
is the vagueness of references, such as "Refer to the NVDA code
documentation". I cannot find this documentation anywhere, even in
the NVDA source code.
If you check out the NVDA source code and read the accompanying readme
files, you will see instructions on generating the NVDA code
documentation. You can also browse an online copy, although I don't
think it's updated on a regular basis, at:
https://files.derekriemer.com/nvda/module-tree.html ;
Honestly though, I think most NVDA developers will tell you that reading
the code itself is usually better than the documentation. If you're
hoping that the code documentation will shine a light on
everything that
has hitherto seemed confusing, you'll be seriously disappointed. The
code documentation is constructed from Python docstrings. It's a terse
reference, not a guide.
Even so, I doubt I'd be able to glean much
from it, since NVDA has a lot of in-depth interaction with the
operating system which, when it comes to development, I know hardly
anything about the workings of. This then also adds the Windows API
to my reference list, and now I feel like I am on a road of
information overload.
Any portions of the Windows API that are used by NVDA have already been
wrapped as simple Python functions for use in higher level abstractions.
Unless you need to use a part of it that hasn't already been defined as
such, you don't need to understand the ins and outs of that.
Additionally, it's highly unlikely that, for your first add-ons, you'll
even need to use such functionality. Rather, you'll interact with the
abstractions that NVDA provides.
To sum up:
1. Learn Python. If you don't know the language, if you can't write
scripts or small programs in it, you will have a hard time writing code
for NVDA.
2. Get familiar with reading other people's Python code. You'll be
doing a lot of that if you want to create high quality add-ons.
3. Give us examples of things you're finding hard. We don't need an
article, we just need you to explain what you don't understand so we can
point you in the right direction.
4. Don't run before you can walk. If you're struggling with how to
create the most basic of add-ons, the Windows API isn't even a distant
concern.
--
Derek Riemer
Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
Open source enthusiast.
Member of Bridge Cu
Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio
Awesome little hand built weather app!
mailto:derek.riemer@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
Phone: (303) 906-2194
--
Derek Riemer
Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
Open source enthusiast.
Member of Bridge Cu
Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio
Awesome little hand built weather app!
mailto:derek.riemer@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
Phone: (303) 906-2194
--
Derek Riemer
Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
Open source enthusiast.
Member of Bridge Cu
Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio
Awesome little hand built weather app!
mailto:derek.riemer@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
Phone: (303) 906-2194
--
Derek Riemer
Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
Open source enthusiast.
Member of Bridge Cu
Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio
Awesome little hand built weather app!
mailto:derek.riemer@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
Phone: (303) 906-2194
