[ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
- From: "Huw Evans" <huw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 22:58:59 +0100
Thank you, Alison..
I'm all for sharing in customer facing elements in the hope that their not
too subtle for me to recognise their functionality and I shall enjoy hearing
about the clouds as long as they are relevant.
(I was unaware that you operated a night shift).
With best wishes,
Huw.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Long, Alison" <Alison.Long@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:58 PM
Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
Hi Huw
I'd like to assure you, we are listening and working on a number of
developments. It would probably be helpful to share some of the more
customer facing elements of the development roadmap, you probably don't want
to hear about cloud services, new ftp sites and the like. Email delivery is
still our top priority, there have been subtle differences to the three test
samples, but quite a bit of it is to test server side functionality. It was
important to send a magazine, as well as the newspapers, as these are
generated in a different way to the newspapers, and not all of them are
zipped files or have the same file extensions.
Following feedback we have an improvement to the navigation of HTML files
that we'll be ready to test later this week. We know there's still work
to do on navigation and file structure. We will utilise customer feedback
from the forthcoming survey (the results of which we'll share) to move this
forward. Speakon is the next priority on our development list, and I
understand our developers are talking to Isaac, likewise with Dolphin for
Guide's reader.
We will be moving the MP3 service over to join the etext offering on the new
website, which will also include RSS feeds and, following feedback, keeping
multiple editions of magazines live at any one time. These three elements
will undergo internal testing next week, we will then be asking customers to
participate in some testing on a range of software and devices.
Thanks
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Huw Evans
Sent: 20 May 2014 20:48
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
No one is praising the new system and I doubt whether the majority of us are
coping all that well, especially as most users were receiving by email
before 1 April. Apart from the 3 trials, I've not been able to have any
papers at all and there may be others in the same position.
I'm beginning to feel that the trials are a bit of a farce as there has been
no changes made or essential difference between the samples. (the first was
htlm only, the second and third html and text (useless without contents or
numbering)).
Huw.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:32 PM
Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
I agree
We seem to have moved from a system that was easy to use,
To one that is more difficult.
Ok so many customers are managing the new system, but just because
The majority can manage ok, should not bea reason to ignore
Those that have problems with system.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of goshawk on horseback
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:21 PM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
I also really wish they would bring back the a-technic newsreader format. it
was just so much easier to navigate.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 4:38 PM
Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
Do you think we will end up with a system that only the
Computer experts can manage to read!
I feel everyone's skills, abilities, needs to be taken in to account.
It's like Braille books production.
Both grade one and grade two is usually offered.
Why offer grade one?
It's so that those that cannot manage grade two
Are still able to read a Braille book!
So in the case of the news papers a-technic newsreader
And also "guide" both need to be on offer as was the case
With TNA UK
Regards, Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Huw Evans
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 4:12 PM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3
Here is a copy of my feedback to trial 3:
Thank you for the 'New Scientist' on 20 May. It is, of course, a most
interesting and weighty magazine.
I believe the only practicable way of tackling it involves using both
versions, relying on the html's contents and then searching within the tex
version as necessary. Neither version, in my view, is satisfactory on its
own - the html being unsearchable and the text lacking a contents and
numbered sections. While it is possible to cope with the magazine in this
clumsy manner, it is a retrograde step when compared with the ease with
which the text version could be read in the past.
Am I correct in saying that apart from the fact that each is presented as a
single item only, these do not differ from the corresponding versions of the
'Sunday Times', which you sent in the second trial?
Best wishes,
Huw Evans.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 12:36 PM
Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements"
Well I hope they do a fix so that a-technic newsreader works.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Isaac Porat
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 7:23 AM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements"
Hi Huw and list
In reply to your question, purely from a technical point of view there
are in my mind two main issues:
1. Creating by the automatic system well structured publications as
opposed to page based publications as they are now.
This will allow easier navigation as we were accustom to while reading
the TNAUK publications. It should be emphasized that this is
independent of the actual format be it HTML epub or text, structure is
structure. Of course a structured publication can have page information
too for those who wants it as it was with the TNAUK format.
2. Supplying The '.doc' TNAUK format.
Personally I think well structured publications are essential for
efficient and pleasant reading experience. There are however readers
with minimal computer skills and for those structure will make little
difference if all one knows is to read line by line and perhaps jump
from one article to the next.
Again personally I will not miss the '.doc' format, moving to well
recognized international formats is a good thing of course if there are
reading systems out there to take advantage of these. To read HTML in
principle all you need is a browser and any text editor will read text
of course if these are not well structured than reading is hard work.
As I mentioned previously on this thread structuring publications is a
lot more difficult than what RNIB is doing at present which means
programming investment in the automatic system which costs money and
takes time.
Deserved or not RNIB is known for 'top down, we know what is good for
you approach.
Will the survey be an exercise in political correctness or a genuine
attempt to resolve the problem I don't know. However, there is a new
top management in the media and solutions sections lets see what they
can do.
Regards
Isaac
n 16/05/2014 21:44, Huw Evans wrote:
Hi Isaac,
I'm wondering whether there are any technical (non-financial) reasons
why RNIB cannot provide the service we were accustomed to get from
Tnauk and whether you are prepared to
comment on this.
My belief is that recent events have established that our needs as
newspaper and magazine readers differ fundamentally from our needs
when reading books and that distinct separate non procrustean
arrangements are needed for providing a satisfactory service. Now
that our needs are more clearly understood, I have no doubt that the
RNIB would be concerned to provide us with such an obviously valuable
service and that it would be an wonderful complement to the talking
books service.
I believe the coming May consultation exercise should be regarded as
part of the planning procedure and that all users should be given an
opportunity to consider all options (i.e. including the tnauk type
presentation). RnIB should then be prepared to go back to the drawing
board, obtain any necessary expert advice and make appropriate
adjustments to allocations of resources and budgets.
Huw.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Porat" <isaac@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:33 AM
Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements"
Hi
I was involved with the TNAUK computer systems as a volunteer so I
have some knowledge how these things work...
You are right and wrong.
Most of the newspapers and very few magazines come from the
association NLA feed so in theory (and mostly in practice) they can
be produced like sausages automatically and therefore cheap to produce.
Most of the magazines are complex, have lots of none relevant
graphics, come in complex formats and need to be produced manually
and therefore there is a cost (if I remember correctly 2 - 4 hours)
each to produce.
Going back to the NLA automatic system, producing publications
properly structured with sections is more complex; for a start not
all publications specify the section information in a uniform way
(some don't) so a lot more effort is required to develop and maintain
such a system. Like many people on this list I agree that this is
essential.
Regards
Isaac
On 15/05/2014 17:53, Derek Hornby wrote:
The strange thing is though, whether there a just few
Subscribers to a publication, or few hundred, the costs are same!
So this brings us to an interesting point.
We pay £39 a year, and can have as many publication as we want.
Should we pay according to how many publications we subscribe to?
If we are to be equal to sighted world, should we not pay
Same cover price as the sighted!
Regards, Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf
Of Mark Kirkham
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:31 PM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements"
And hardly the greatest surprise is that we have already seen the
RNIB about
to discontinue some minority titles. I've just had an email
informing me
that the Wisden Cricketer is to go due to lack of subscribers. And
don't you
just love that email address they use to send emails: Mailbox, RNIB
solutions - oh how amusing!
Mark
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