No one is praising the new system and I doubt whether the majority of us are coping all that well, especially as most users were receiving by email before 1 April. Apart from the 3 trials, I've not been able to have any papers at all and there may be others in the same position.
I'm beginning to feel that the trials are a bit of a farce as there has been no changes made or essential difference between the samples. (the first was htlm only, the second and third html and text (useless without contents or numbering)).
Huw.----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:32 PM Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3 I agree We seem to have moved from a system that was easy to use, To one that is more difficult. Ok so many customers are managing the new system, but just because The majority can manage ok, should not bea reason to ignore Those that have problems with system. Derek -----Original Message----- From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of goshawk on horseback Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:21 PM To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3 I also really wish they would bring back the a-technic newsreader format. it was just so much easier to navigate. Simon----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 4:38 PM Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3 Do you think we will end up with a system that only the Computer experts can manage to read! I feel everyone's skills, abilities, needs to be taken in to account. It's like Braille books production. Both grade one and grade two is usually offered. Why offer grade one? It's so that those that cannot manage grade two Are still able to read a Braille book! So in the case of the news papers a-technic newsreader And also "guide" both need to be on offer as was the case With TNA UK Regards, Derek -----Original Message----- From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Huw Evans Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 4:12 PM To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ntnm] Re: feedback trial 3 Here is a copy of my feedback to trial 3: Thank you for the 'New Scientist' on 20 May. It is, of course, a most interesting and weighty magazine. I believe the only practicable way of tackling it involves using both versions, relying on the html's contents and then searching within the tex version as necessary. Neither version, in my view, is satisfactory on its own - the html being unsearchable and the text lacking a contents and numbered sections. While it is possible to cope with the magazine in this clumsy manner, it is a retrograde step when compared with the ease with which the text version could be read in the past. Am I correct in saying that apart from the fact that each is presented as a single item only, these do not differ from the corresponding versions of the 'Sunday Times', which you sent in the second trial? Best wishes, Huw Evans.----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 12:36 PM Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements" Well I hope they do a fix so that a-technic newsreader works. Derek -----Original Message----- From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Isaac Porat Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 7:23 AM To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements" Hi Huw and list In reply to your question, purely from a technical point of view there are in my mind two main issues: 1. Creating by the automatic system well structured publications as opposed to page based publications as they are now. This will allow easier navigation as we were accustom to while reading the TNAUK publications. It should be emphasized that this is independent of the actual format be it HTML epub or text, structure is structure. Of course a structured publication can have page information too for those who wants it as it was with the TNAUK format. 2. Supplying The '.doc' TNAUK format. Personally I think well structured publications are essential for efficient and pleasant reading experience. There are however readers with minimal computer skills and for those structure will make little difference if all one knows is to read line by line and perhaps jump from one article to the next. Again personally I will not miss the '.doc' format, moving to well recognized international formats is a good thing of course if there are reading systems out there to take advantage of these. To read HTML in principle all you need is a browser and any text editor will read text of course if these are not well structured than reading is hard work. As I mentioned previously on this thread structuring publications is a lot more difficult than what RNIB is doing at present which means programming investment in the automatic system which costs money and takes time. Deserved or not RNIB is known for 'top down, we know what is good for you approach. Will the survey be an exercise in political correctness or a genuine attempt to resolve the problem I don't know. However, there is a new top management in the media and solutions sections lets see what they can do. Regards Isaac n 16/05/2014 21:44, Huw Evans wrote:
Hi Isaac, I'm wondering whether there are any technical (non-financial) reasons why RNIB cannot provide the service we were accustomed to get from Tnauk and whether you are prepared to comment on this. My belief is that recent events have established that our needs as newspaper and magazine readers differ fundamentally from our needs when reading books and that distinct separate non procrustean arrangements are needed for providing a satisfactory service. Now that our needs are more clearly understood, I have no doubt that the RNIB would be concerned to provide us with such an obviously valuable service and that it would be an wonderful complement to the talking books service. I believe the coming May consultation exercise should be regarded as part of the planning procedure and that all users should be given an opportunity to consider all options (i.e. including the tnauk type presentation). RnIB should then be prepared to go back to the drawing board, obtain any necessary expert advice and make appropriate adjustments to allocations of resources and budgets. Huw. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Porat" <isaac@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:33 AM Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements"Hi I was involved with the TNAUK computer systems as a volunteer so I have some knowledge how these things work... You are right and wrong. Most of the newspapers and very few magazines come from the association NLA feed so in theory (and mostly in practice) they can be produced like sausages automatically and therefore cheap to produce. Most of the magazines are complex, have lots of none relevant graphics, come in complex formats and need to be produced manually and therefore there is a cost (if I remember correctly 2 - 4 hours) each to produce. Going back to the NLA automatic system, producing publications properly structured with sections is more complex; for a start not all publications specify the section information in a uniform way (some don't) so a lot more effort is required to develop and maintain such a system. Like many people on this list I agree that this is essential. Regards Isaac On 15/05/2014 17:53, Derek Hornby wrote:The strange thing is though, whether there a just few Subscribers to a publication, or few hundred, the costs are same! So this brings us to an interesting point. We pay £39 a year, and can have as many publication as we want. Should we pay according to how many publications we subscribe to? If we are to be equal to sighted world, should we not pay Same cover price as the sighted! Regards, Derek -----Original Message----- From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Kirkham Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:31 PM To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ntnm] Re: comment on news papers and magazine"improvements" And hardly the greatest surprise is that we have already seen the RNIB about to discontinue some minority titles. I've just had an email informing me that the Wisden Cricketer is to go due to lack of subscribers. And don't you just love that email address they use to send emails: Mailbox, RNIB solutions - oh how amusing! Mark
