[ntnm] Re: Emailed papers

  • From: "Huw Evans" <huw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 15:31:21 +0100

I share nostalgia for the Guardian's accessibility and hope we keep hammering away until decision makers get the message. We know from our collective experience that a perfectly acceptable system is possible and.
Instead of focussing on meeting our need for easily readable material delivered by email, RNIB appear to me to have behaved like a rather disreputable salesman who uses shady tecjniques to push an inferior product. While RNIB clearly has marketing and technical expertise, how are they to understand our needs if we have not been consulted and listened to? It is possible that if we press for the establishment of a more formal users' consultative group, it may be possible to improve the flow of information and the quality of the discussion. 

Regards,

Huw.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: [ntnm] Re: Emailed papers



Well here is how easy  and quick  it was for me, with email  service.


1.  open email
2. press the f5  key
3. now I  would  type c:\newspapers\ and then  press  enter key
4. come out of outlook  and press letter n  and then enter key
5. use the up  or down  arrow key  to select paper  to read.
6. press the  third key  right side of space  bar
And then letter n

7. press enter when it says a-technic newsreader
It now would  say7  "do you  want to search for  specific words in this
document."
So if I was to  type in here:  "rnib"
All the articles with  "RNIB"  would be listed.


8. after pressing enter   for 7  anove itr now looks like this:

The Guardian Tuesday 1 April 2014
GUARDIAN HOME PAGES
GUARDIAN SPORT PAGES
GUARDIAN FEATURES PAGES
GUARDIAN INTERNATIONAL PAGES
GUARDIAN FINANCIAL PAGES
GUARDIAN COMMENT AND DEBATE PAGES
GUARDIAN EDUCATION PAGES
GUARDIAN LEADER PAGES
GUARDIAN OBITUARIES PAGES
GUARDIAN WEATHER PAGES

TNAUK notices
Help on using newsreader

Document formatted by a-technic newsreader v3.2



If  I was to  selcet home  pages"
The  artickes  to choose to read look like this:

GUARDIAN HOME PAGES
Undervaluing Royal Mail cost taxpayer pounds 750m in one day: Undervaluing
Royal Mail cost pounds 750m in a day
Five fruit and veg a day not enough - study
Leading doctors raise alarm over delays to medical trials: Britain could be 
left unprepared for outbreak of infectious disease
John Crace's sketch The bloodless and the bunny
Why refined sugar is the real enemy: Anyone for 10 a day?


I would press enter  on my choice  and then read.

Derek

-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
Of Rod
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 1:36 PM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: Emailed papers

Hi, For me the question should be:  Why did NTNM persist for so long using
the same file extension as Microsoft and totally confusing other software
products in the process!    Atechnic whilst it is a brilliant product was
sometimes very irritating when it tried to pick up any Zip file that you
were trying to extract!  Rod Carne

Sent from my iPad


On 24 May 2014, at 10:33, "Gareth Williams"

<edward.williams123@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Hi Isaac

It might save RNIB some aggravation if they were to explain why they
cannot offer the .doc option along with all the others they do now provide. 
There may be a good technical reason for this, which you may be able to
explain, since they seem reluctant to do so.


As you know, I can use the new system perfectly well, though I don't like
it because the structuring is abysmal, but there are clearly those who need 
the old system as the rely on the Atechnics Reader or your own SpeakOn.


I wonder if it was necessary to offer six new alternatives while getting

rid of one which worked perfectly well, even if, as you say, it was ten
years out of date. If it worked, did this matter?


All the best

Gareth


-----Original Message----- From: Isaac Porat
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:39 AM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: Emailed papers

Hi

I would like to clarify a few things on my side and  the opinions in
this email are just my own.

SpeakOn and the a-technic news reader are two separate programs both
started their life in the a-technic charity.  SpeakOn was developed and
continued to be developed further by myself in my free time and I am
engaged with RNIB to update it for the new service; they still have to
do some work on their server to facilitate this which they indicated
that they are willing to do.

The a-technic news reader was developed earlier by somebody else, when
the only format available was the TNAUK '.doc'. It worked well and has
not been maintained for the last ten years or so.
The a-technic news reader uses the old TNAUK '.doc' zipped format (it
has no format of its own) and without this format it does not work.
The a-technic charity has reduced its activity its website would be shut
down soon; as long as it was relevant I agreed to host the a-technic
news reader on the SpeakOn website.

 With the a-technic newsreader the publication is broken into linked
multiple HTML pages and it was created before TNAUK (and now RNIB)
offered HTML format directly, one can therefore argue that it is not
required any more.

Regarding HTML, there are two issues here, format and structure.

In my view the single page HTML format itself produced by RNIB can do
with some improvements but it is generally fine; anybody with basic
screen reader skills should be able to navigate and read the
publications. Single and multiple page HTML formats have of course their
advantages and disadvantages

The output of those publications that are produced manually like the New
Scientist is very good and easier to navigate.  The output of some of
the other magazines, such as the Economist, the national and regional
newspapers produced by the RNIB automatic
system is unstructured and thus difficult to navigate making reading
these publications hard work.

In other words the problems are due to lack of structure which affects
all formats and not the HTML format itself.

Regards
Isaac


On 23/05/2014 23:18, Derek Hornby wrote:
Hello  Alison
So it's not really  true then to say:
"Our tests to date have been successful"


Also  Isaac  has said on this list:


"The a-technic reader works with the old TNAUK zipped '.doc'
which  RNIB does not support anymore.
The a-technic reader is still currently on the SpeakOn website and I
shall remove it as it is not relevant to the new service anymore.!"

So RNIB  does not suport the newsreader ?
And Isaac does not feel it's  relavant.?

Regards,  Derek


-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf

Of Long, Alison
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:44 PM
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Re: Emailed papers

Hello Derek
Speaking to Dolphin this week, following tests they have conducted, it
is possible to access the email service using Guide, but there is more
development work required to make it more user-friendly.  RNIB and
Dolphin are committed to this development work.  As I mentioned in my
post regarding the development roadmap, our developers are in contact
with Isaac regarding the newsreader and it is our next priority.  As
soon as I have an update I will share it with the forum.

We are conscious that switching on the email delivery service is not
going to provide all customers with the content they have previously
enjoyed, we will continue to work hard on this .  I can only apologise
again.
Regards
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ntnm-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 23 May 2014 22:08
To: ntnm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ntnm] Emailed papers

Hello  Alison
You said in news letter:

"Our tests to date have been successful, we just have some final testing
to do early next week so that we can  switch on the full service."

Does this mean  those using Guide,  will be able to access the emailed
Papers.  Also,  will the  a-technic newsreader now  work  ok.

Regards,  Derek




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