Hi Garry, > I > dont think anyone said these cannot be made to run, Ooooh - but they have. A very few have even said they should not be allowed to run! > they will not run using only the bits supplied by the company. Agreed > I must be one of > the few who had lots of problems with both the company and loco but yet has > bought a second kit. It never fails to amaze me how many people curse these kits (for very valid reasons) and then order another! Says something about human nature I guess - but I'm not sure what. > I have to admit I would never pay the full price to them > again but this was an offer to good to refuse. Paying by credit card is highly advisable. I am told that some of those who were paying Winsons by credit card when they went bust got their money back and, in the confusion of that time, were not asked, and didn't, return the goods! > I have spoken to two owners of the Black 5 who > have tried to steam their engines but have a large steaming problem, either > will not steam or loses pressure very quickly and will not draw the fire > through again. The engines on which the kits were based certainly don't have a problem in this respect - even when I drive them. I'm not familiar with the kit Black 5's but I would start by looking at the air flow paths through the ashpan and grate and then check the dimensions of the blast pipe and petticoat against Martin Evan's data. I know this could have been a problem on this 4500 as for some > strange reason the fire bars supplied if all fitted had less than a 1/16" gap > between them! Common sense told me that I had to use half of these and then minus > one to give a good air flow. Yes, I think all these engines should steam if the entire flowpath of air/gases is examined and sorted where necessary. The basic designs are O.K.- it's the bits and pieces that let them down. > If you want I could send you some photos. Hmmm....yes please. I'm at bpduo53@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cheers, Barrie MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.