Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
- From: "Benjamin Blatter" <b.blatter@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 21:10:20 +0100
Hi everybody
We talked about changing meter settings in the motif XS in a song.
Can anyone tell me how I do that in Sonar? I got it a week ago and so I'm
still unfamiliar with this wonderful program.
I want to write a song which is most in 4/4. But there's always a place
where it changes to 2/4. How can I get this?
And is it also possible to add a empty measure anywhere in a song?
Thanks
Benjamin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emccullough1" <emccullough1@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
Actually Bryan I still do it the way you described it in the previous
message. That sounds wonderful though. Perhaps one day, I'll get to
experience that on the Motif XS. Perhaps Driza has found a new way to do
things on the ES.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
That's interesting. You're right that, in general, the Motif will capture
most changes that you make while you're in record. So, if you're recording,
and you turn a knob to tweak the sound of a voice, change the attack/release
of a sound with the knobs, move a volume fader, change the tempo, etc, those
all get recorded. In a lot of ways, that is a much easier way of doing
automation than people have to deal with in DAW apps like Sonar.
The drawback here is when you need to set an exact value at an exact time.
For example, if my drum track is mostly dry, but, in the last snare hit
before the downbeat of a new song section, I want to wash the snare with
reverb, then I'd just move to the top of the last bar, go into overdub
record, turn the reverb knob up before the snare, turn it back down after
the snare, and press stop. Sure, I've put lots of knob automation all over
that track, but who cares. I got what I wanted. When it comes to things like
tempo and meter, though, you might want to jump directly from one value to
another. So, in that case, just turning a knob is going to create a gradual
change. At least, that is how it has worked with most of what I've tried so
far.
So, just so that I understand you correctly, you jump forward into the
song where you want the meter to change, start recording, and then arrow up
to and change the meter during the count-in? If you were fast enough to make
that change during the count-in, then maybe, when recording started, only
the most recent meter change would be recorded to the tempo track.
Or, are you saying that you move to the bar where you want the meter
change, go into Record Setup, change the meter setting, and then press play?
Those Yamaha people are really the smart ones. I'm always so happily
surprised when I expect to have to do things in a highly technical way (like
I've come to expect from a computer), and they've already made the Motif
figure it out for me. Here is an example. On the Motif, when you wanted to
make a pattern into a song, you have to record a pattern chain, and then you
have to dump that chain into a song. On the ES, recording a chain involved
recording a pattern track that contained info about when to switch between
the different pattern sections, and a scene track, where you could record
your mute/solo of tracks. This made the pattern chain mode almost a mini
sequencer in its own right, complete with overdub and replace recording,
multiple tracks, an editor that had to be learned, etc. On the XS, you just
go into Pattern Chain mode, hit record, and play the pattern with the
buttons, just like you would from pattern play mode. You can switch
sections, perform your solos/mutes, and it will all be recorded. Since it is
all recorded at once, there is no need for separate chain tracks, and, while
there is an editor for the chain, it is usually easier for me to just hit
record and perform the pattern again. On the ES, I didn't bother to create a
pattern chain unless I was serious about turning the pattern into a song so
that I could record overdubs. However, on the XS, when I'm writing patterns,
I almost always record a rough chain with a demo song structure laid out
(intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, etc -- something like that), so that I
can hear the patterns in context and bounce my song ideas off of people.
Another way that they've really made all of this easier is when you get
ready to render the chain to a song. When you go into the render screen on
the ES, you need to pick the song number where the chain will be dumped. You
can't numerically enter a number there, so you must count with the inc/dec
buttons or clicks of the data dial in order to reach the correct song slot
(Adrian? Ernist? Have you all learned differently since I had an ES). There
were several times on the ES when I'd make a mistake by missing a click when
counting, and I'd over write the wrong song. Of course, there was no un-do,
so that lead to bad situations. On the XS, you don't need to enter a number
or count clicks. If you go to song mode, and dial up to song 12, then, when
you go back into Pattern Chain mode and select to render the chain to a
song, the XS is smart enough to start you out on the last song that you were
using in song mode, which, in this case would be song 12. So, I use song
mode to select the slot (where I can actually hear if anything is stored in
that song slot), and can then switch back to pattern chain and start the
render operation. it is really smart of them.
There is stuff like this everywhere. If you're in Performance mode, and
you record to a song, then press the song button, you're immediately placed
into the song that you just recorded. Working the other way around, if you
select an empty song or pattern, switch to performance mode, and hit record,
you'll be recording into the last song or pattern that you were using. Of
course, you always get a settings screen where you can manually set the
number, but these new ways are much more useful to someone that is working
based on what they hear rather than what they see.
What a great instrument!
Bryan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jes
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:17 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
Actually Bryan, you don't need to do anything with the event editor. I
found out through trial and error that if you just go to the measure where
you want to change the time signature and you just change the whole meter,
the meter will change on the start of that measure. For example, say you had
a time signature of 4/4 at the start of your sequence, but after 8 measures
you wanted to switch to 3/4, then 8 measures later you wanted to go back to
4/4. When you want to change the time signature from 4/4 to 3/4 at the 8th
measure, just go to measure 8 and change the meter by pressing the record
button then scrolling up and changing the meter that way. When you want to
change it back to 4/4, just do the same thing. I've found that method to
work, unless I'm missing something. Thoughts?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
To change the time signature in the middle of a song, you need to insert
a meter change into the event list. From song mode, press edit. In here,
there is an insert function. When you pick it a screen will come up asking
the type of event.
You'll need sighted help for this. I haven't had anyone go through the
event editor with me in any detail other than how to use the main event edit
screen to change notes, velocities, and durations.
Bryan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jes
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:35 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
Bryan, I am using the MoTif xs. I should have made that clear in my last
message.
--
From: Bryan Smart
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
The short answer is yes. You can change the time signature in the
middle of a song.
Which Motif are you using?
Bryan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jes
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:01 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [MoAccess] Changing time signatures in sequencer
Hi all. I know how to change the meter from 4/4 to 3/4 in the song
mode, but how do you change the number of beats in a measure, like from 4/4
to 6/8? Also, is it possible to change the time signature throughout a
sequence, like going from 4/4 to 3/4, then returning to 4/4? I would hope
that the Motif can handle complex rhythm changes like 6/8, 5/4, 9/12, etc.
Thanks
Jes
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