[lit-ideas] Re: Reason and Politics
- From: wokshevs@xxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Steve Chilson <stevechilson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:16:49 -0230
Steve's post below opens by asking a potentially interesting but poorly
formulated question. He then loses me completely in the subsequent sentences.
Staying with that opening question for the moment, I think it's important to
specify somewhat the idea or criterion of "more important" before venturing
answers. Steve seems to assume the notion is somehow self-evident. Or that it
is unpacked by the subsequent sentences. I do not think it is. Others may
disagree of course. Steve, could you help out here? Perhaps it would also help
if you could unpack what you take to be involved in "the belief in democracy."
By "the" is it that you believe there is only one possible belief, or one
legitimate belief, concerning democracy? As if anyone supporting democracy as a
form of governance would necessarily have that belief?
And I completely agree with your maxim not to talk bullshit or political
correctness simply for the sake of political correctness.
Walter C. Okshevsky
Memorial University
Quoting Steve Chilson <stevechilson@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> what is more important - the belief in religion or the belief in
> democracy?
>
> Let's not talk bullshit or political correct.
>
> Truth and righteousness are words that create fire in souls but they
> have no real meaning.
>
> the belief in nothing; that is the belief in religion and the belief in
> democracy.
>
> Will I kill a man for my freedom? Will I kill a man for my god? Will I
> kill a man for bread?
>
> Those are the questions.
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:49:56 -0230, wokshevs@xxxxxx said:
> > I don't think the issue here is a matter of the tenets of a religion.
> > Democracy
> > as a political system, and rationality as a system of universal
> > imperatives,
> > are obligated to disregard the truth or rightness of any religious view.
> > The
> > question for your account is really how and whether Enlightenment values
> > of
> > benefit maximization (or any other E. value, for that matter) can
> > legitimately
> > trump the right to religious expression in a pluralist democracy where
> > freedom
> > of religion is a charter or constitutional right. "Successful pluralism"
> > surely
> > involves a fair system of cooperation between all cultural and religious
> > groups
> > in which the rights of all are protected. I'm not clear on how the
> > preservation
> > of any one right can be "a subsidiary goal" to the preservation of other
> > rights.
> >
> > Walter Okshevsky
> > Memorial U.
> >
> > Quoting Eric Yost <eyost1132@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >
> > > >>Suppose someone were to aver: 'There is no true freedom
> > > of religion in a democracy if there is no freedom to burn
> > > heretics and apostates as required by our religion.' What
> > > would the proper response be to such a claim?"
> > >
> > > And why were Satanists overlooked in Bush's so-called
> > > faith-based initiatives? Surely they could have run a soup
> > > kitchen between animal sacrifices.
> > >
> > > Suppose the answer is that in a liberal democracy,
> > > Enlightenment values of maximum happiness overrule the
> > > tenets of any particular religion? The highest goal being
> > > successful pluralism -- goals subsidiary to that being
> > > freedom of religion, speech, usw.
> > >
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> >
> >
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> --
> Steve Chilson
> stevechilson@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
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