[lit-ideas] Re: Murder in two cultures
- From: "JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 01:38:45 -0500
I think I'm confused by your original post, Norm --
"Here's a problem I've been working on. US newspapers frequently
report cases of men killing their wives, then turning themselves
in. Presumably it happens in France, though I don't know. What
I do know is that where murder followed by surrender shows up not
infrequently in French literature and film (Julien Sorel,
Lacenaire, etc.) I have not been able to find a single example in
American fiction or films. If this is so there's room for some
interesting speculation, but before wasting time on the latter it
would be prudent to make sure that my survey of the American
scene is accurate."
I guess I'm wondering if you are looking for real case studies, or literary
allusions.
The theme of guilt/remorse/martyrdom/ etc. is fairly romanticized in
fiction. If turning one's self in after murder were very rare in factual
life, one could not expect it to be hugely touted in fictional work, unless
as fantasy, sci-fi, or Harlequins.
I think what I'm getting at is that your query conflates two different
juxtapositions -- a) comparison/contrast between facts and literature
(fiction), and b) comparison/contrast among cultures/countries. I think one
would have to settle on one of the above and make the other subordinant.
Julie Krueger
In what countries
On 4/13/07, N Miller <nm1921@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Julie is quite right. I'm looking for _fictional_ characters who do what
Don José does when he kills Carmen: "c'est moi qui l'a tué", followed by
the heavy chords that tell us where he's headed. It interests me that the
US, which nurtures so many divergent sub-cultures, is a place where beating
the rap seems to be normative throughout.
nm
JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx Krueger wrote:
I keep wanting to suggest a difference between turning one's self in and
admitting to the crime (particularly as, if I understand correctly, people
are with some frequency encouraged to plead guilty in court to whatever, to
reduce the sentence and/or avoid jury trial). But perhaps that's all
splitting hairs and does not go to what Norman is getting at.
Julie Krueger
On 4/12/07, Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Carol Kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Apr 12, 2007 5:53 PM
> >To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Murder in two cultures
> >
>
> Harris's style
> >wasn't frenzied. She felt that her life was over when she realized her
> >lover, her life, was dead. Herein lies the pathos.
> >
> >Perhaps it's less likely that American men in love would feel like
> this.
>
>
>
> I once heard a feminist describe acts of passion as acts of
> possession. That was in the context of the O.J. Simpson murder. You
> hit it on the head when you say that her lover is synonymous with her
> life. To lose him was to lose her Self. That's what O.J. was going
> through, coupled I imagine with some fantasied revenge, probably of mother
> going way back into early childhood. There was way too much energy for
> anything else. People who commit acts of passion (possession) are really
> functioning out of a place of extreme immaturity. Likewise machismo. There
> is just no need to settle disputes violently. Adults just don't do that.
>
>
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