[lit-ideas] Re: Hylomorphism -- A Dogma?

  • From: Michael Chase <goya@xxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:46:46 -0700

Le 24 ao=FBt 04, =E0 23:49, Mike Geary a =E9crit :

> Thank you, JL.  When philosophers start talking about 'form' or=20
> 'substance'
> or 'accidents', etc.  I get squirrelly.  I'm never sure just what=20
> they're
> talking about.  And it has seemed to me that every philosopher means
> something just a little bit different by the terms.  Hence the history=20=

> of
> philosophy.  My first instinct is to say, well, they're the=20
> philosophers,
> they should know, and then hit myself on the head with a hammer hoping=20=

> for
> enlightenment.  Philosophy is as complicated as physics, I know, and a=20=

> hell
> of a lot older with more subject matter to be mastered so why should I
> expect to know what philosophers are talking about any more than what
> physicists are talking about without having devoted years to studying=20=

> them?
> Why?  I don't know why.  But, in fact, I do expect that philosophy=20
> should be
> self-evidently accessible to.  And I think I do know why.  It's=20
> because I
> think Philosophy is about why we live, something that arises more out=20=

> of the
> experiences of my life than through the experiences of others.  I=20
> think I'm
> as much a philosopher as anyone, and I suspect every taxi driver, =
ditch
> digger, CEO and movie star thinks the same.  To most of us, I contend,
> philosophy is the sense we make of our own lives.  But that's=20
> certainly not
> what the academic study of the canon of thinkers identified as=20
> philosophers
> is all about.  Now if Mike Chase wants to argue that philosophy should=20=

> not
> be confined to the stagnant bays of Marsh's Library, I would tend to=20=

> agree
> with him -- generally.  But it seems to me that there is a difference
> between, say poetry and philosophy.   Take Wallace Steven's stanza=20
> from _Le
> Monocle De Mon Oncle_.
>
> VII
>
> The mules that angels ride come slowly down
> The blazing passes, from beyond the sun.
> Descensions of their tinkling bells arrive.
> These muleteers are dainty of their way.
> Meantime, centurions guffaw and beat
> Their shrilling tankards on the table-boards.
> This parable, in sense, amounts to this:
> The honey of heaven may or may not come,
> But that of earth both comes and goes at once.
> Suppose these couriers brought amid their train
> A damsel heightened by eternal bloom.
>
> Is this poetry or philosophy?  Or both?  It's obviously not history.
> Psychology maybe?  It may be of interest to psychologists, but it's
> certainly not psychology.  Literay Studies has fun with it, and, from=20=

> my
> persepective, Literary Studies is closer to philosophy than poetry. =20=

> The
> passage asks questions about the nature of reality, but only as=20
> literature
> can, I think --  does Mike Chase say this passage (not to mention the=20=

> entire
> poem) qualifies as philosophy as much as poetry?

M.C. I dunno, maybe. Compare Wittgenstein, in 1933 :

        Ich glaube meine Stellung zur Philosophie dadurch =
zusammengefasst zu=20
haben, indem ich sagte=A0: Philosophie duerfte man eigentlich nur=20
*dichten*. Daraus muss sich, scheint mir, ergeben, wie weit mein Denken=20=

der Gegenwart, Zukunft, oder der Vergangenheit angehoert. Denn ich habe=20=

mich damit auch als einen bekannt, der nicht ganz kann, was er zu=20
koennen wuenscht.

        I think I summed up my attitude to philosophy when I said=A0: =
philosophy=20
ought really to be written only as a *poetic composition*. It must, as=20=

it seems to me, be possible to gather from this how far my thinking=20
belongs to the present, future, or past. For I was thereby revealing=20
myself as somone who cannot quite do what he would like to be able to=20
do.

        The translation is by Peter Winch (Ludwig Wittgenstein, Cuture =
and=20
Value, Chicago=A0: U. of Chicago Press, 1980, p. 25), but I wonder about=20=

Winch's rendition of "Philosophie duerfte man eigentlich nur=20
*dichten*"=A0: I would have translated something like "In fact,=20
philosophy should really only be done like poetry", or something of the=20=

sort.

        One things of Socrates' dream in which he was practicing music, =
and of=20
Nietzche's philosophical ideal of a dancing Socrates in the Birth of=20
Tragedy (=A7 16, translation by Johnston @=20
http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/Nietzsche/tragedy_all.htm)=A0:

"=A0Where culture is concerned, that despotic logician [that is, =
Socrates=20
- MC] now and then had the feeling of a gap, an emptiness, a partial=20
sense of reproach for a duty he might have neglected. As he explains to=20=

his friends in prison, often one and the same dream apparition came to=20=

him, always with the words, "Socrates, practise music!" He calmed=20
himself, right up to his last days, with the interpretation that his=20
philosophizing was the highest musical art, and believed that it was=20
incorrect that a divinity would remind him of "common, popular music."=20=

Finally in prison he came to understand how, in order to relieve his=20
conscience completely, to practice that music which he had considered=20
insignificant. And in this mood, he composed a poem to Apollo [German=A0:=20=

"*dichtet* er ein Prooemium auf Apollo" ; compare Wittgenstein, quoted=20=

supra - MC] and rendered a few of Aesop's fables in verse.

What drove him to this practice was something like the voice of his=20
warning daemon. It was his Apollonian insight that, like a barbarian=20
king, he did not understand a divine image and was in danger of sinning=20=

against a divinity through his failure to understand. That statement of=20=

Socrates's dream vision is the single indication of his thinking about=20=

something perhaps beyond the borders of his logical nature. So he had=20
to ask himself: Have I always labeled unintelligible things I could not=20=

understand? Perhaps there is a kingdom of wisdom which is forbidden to=20=

the logician? Perhaps art is even a necessary correlative and=20
supplement to scientific understanding?

        Best, Mike.


>
Michael Chase
(goya@xxxxxxxxxxx)
CNRS UPR 76
7, rue Guy Moquet
Villejuif 94801
France

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