RE: update or new version of jfw?
- From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:28:01 -0700
Not only that but the air lines are going to be doing away with phone =
agents
in the next year or so. The banks are pushing you to use the computer =
for
banking. Sbc the telephone company is pushing for on line paying of =
your
bills they will be doing away with the phone support for this purpous by
2006 from what I have herd. There is now a $10 charge from perviden to =
pay
your crated card on the phone no charge for doing it on line. So I =
guess
paying your bills is a luxury=20
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
Behalf
Of Cy
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:27 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
David,
My friend you speak with some maturity and wisdom.
You are quite correct in that there are many, many blind or visually
impaired people who can not afford the luxury of the latest and greatest
technology to assist them. I would love to have a color identifier, =
Mowatt
Sensor, currency identifier, navigational device and a host of other =
things
- but - the funds are simply just not available. I am very fortunate to =
be
able to have DSL and a reasonably fast computer. I am still trying to =
budget
for an update of Open Book and it will probably be a Christmas Present.
Those folks who are fortunate enough to have their technology marvels
purchased for them are, indeed, lucky. The rest of us have to do the =
best we
can with what we have available. If I can get it cheaper I will because =
I
have to. I, as David, am not complaining, I am just telling it like it =
is.
Cy, the Ancient One... .
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
Behalf
Of david poehlman
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:50 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
I guess it depends on what you consider a necessity. If you think it is =
not
a necessity to keep up with what's going on in the world, I guess a =
computer
is not a necessity. I pay for my broadband connection along with my =
cable=20
because I get it cheaper that way. I pay for my phone which just got =
cut by
half the cost because I spent money to avail myself of a cheaper =
service. I
get a contract here and there because I am a private contractor but =
mostly I
live on less than 400 dollars a month. It costs a lot to keep groceries =
in=20
the house and I do not live alone so The reality is that there isn't =
much=20
money available for "luxuries" like a jaws sma. Were I in a position to
keep it up, I'd buy one every year, but to sit here and tell me that I =
can=20
get anything I want because I buy junk is bounding on the ludicrous and=20
rediculous. By the time I get done paying my bills, I'm lucky to have =
the=20
money to cover the charge on my checking account, a paultry 12 dollars a
month. Lest someone think I am writing to complain or out of anger, =
think=20
again. I am writing in response to this idea that we can all just go =
out=20
and plunk down money for something that we may feel we need that has an=20
arbetrary fixed cost and then we find out that it can actually be had =
for=20
less. I think we should all flock to The dealer who sells james his sma
updates and or tell fs that we know it can be had for less directly =
because=20
it is being sold for less elsewhere.
So many blind people are in such desperate streights that they pay an=20
organization just for the pleasure of reading inferiorly produced books =
on=20
their computers. I don't think you have to keep up your jaws sma for =
that=20
so they read these books and some of them are even lucky enough or smart
enough or whatever you want to call it that they have scanners and =
software=20
to convert some of the books for the organization as vollunteers. I =
know=20
there is a fair amount of purchasing power out there among the blind, I =
also
know though that there are a lot of people not on this list and not=20
connected to the internet and who don't have the latest and greatest or =
even
a computer because they simply don't have the resources.
Recently, on another list, we were told that if you want a job as a =
blind=20
person, you have to use a computer if only to write your resume and send =
out
requests for information and to search for jobs. The computer is a =
vital=20
part of our daily lives and everyone who doesn't have one and has the =
desire
to obtain one should have one and an internet connection. Computers =
have=20
made a huge difference in how we live act and think and if you don't =
have=20
one, it's like being doubly blind.
Johnnie Apple Seed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Angel" <angel238@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
Look at the junk blind people on fixed incomes do purchase. If someone
wants something badly enough they will buy it. I think Jaws is well =
worth
the amount spent on it. Using computers is not a necessity yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hank" <hank@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> if fs lowered the price would more customers purchase it? just curious =
> people on a fix income and the average blind person can't get jaws and
when
> the blind agencies won't get them for the blind person then there
> screwed. I am lucky mine helped me but I no firneds who were not so=20
> lucky. the 900 bucks is personally a out ragious price small market or
> not. just my 2 cents.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 4:35 AM
> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
>
>
> > Jim and all,
> >
> > Three things.
> >
> > 1> there's no reason the bugs as they usually are cannot be fixed in
> > 1> a
new
> > release along with adding some new features.
> >
> > 2> you said there used to be a company. Why do you think it is
> > 2> gone?
> >
> > 3> You talk about adding support, but where is the money going to
> > 3> come
> > from
> > to do this? I'm not saying you are rong or that we should not have
> > a better product, but the money to do the things you suggest needs=20
> > to be there
and
> > by
> > and large in today's at market, it is not there. We need support
> > for instance to a much wider array of tools than we have, but there=20
> > is only support for applications for which there is money provided.
> >
> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 6:18 AM
> > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >
> >
> > Hi, well you can have working and fast. There was a company that I
> > will
=3D
> > not
> > name here that did just that. Yes there were bugs but the bugs got
> > =3D fixed quick. New features came along all the time and new=20
> > releaces happened offten fixing bubug that came up and adding=20
> > features when needed. As =3D you
> > said quite a lot of the time new bugs were interduced but we already
=3D
> > have
> > that problem as it is. For example there were no problems with the
type
=3D
> > key
> > function in jaws 5.0 there is now. Lots of bugs were fixed. But if
> > a =3D lot of these new features and bugs were realeced to the user =
as
> > they were =3D coded
> > they would have been reported faster and fewer changes would have
been =3D
> > maid
> > in the mean time. As for jaws 6.0 we are not ready for a major
upgraid
=3D
> > yet.
> > To many things need to be done and fixed so updates to the program
> > about
=3D
> > 5
> > or six I would think need to come out in the mean time corecting =3D
> > problems. If you ask me 6 should come out about the time ms releces=20
> > the next =3D version
> > of windows. It should come out on the same day as that version and
they
> > should be able to anounce support for that version. In the mean
time =3D
> > they
> > should be working on delivering the things they said they were going
to
> > deliver and fix what needs fixing. Also some one needs to get on
this =3D
> > list
> > and all the other lists for jaws and start reading the mail that
comes =3D
> > in so
> > that they can aid the users and add the remarks to the data base.
This
> > company I will not name here did just that and I my self saw the
things
=3D
> > I
> > brought to the list being fixed and a lot of my own ideas went in to
> > the program. Why? Because they heard there users. We as users need
> > to =3D start making noise we need to tell them that we want to be
> > heard. We need to
=3D
> > tell
> > them that we will shell out our money but we want fast and good
> > servus =3D more bank for our buck. We want a tol free number for=20
> > support. The other company I speak of had it. We want more updates
> > with more things fixed.
=3D
> > One
> > every lets say 6 weeks. Even it if is a new script added on the jfw
> > =3D lite web sight is tested by a tech and is desided it works well =
to
> > provide =3D access
> > to a program then it should be a part of jaws. There should be a
page =3D
> > on
> > the fs web sight for users to add there scripts for evaluation. If
they
> > provide access to a program at all they should be included with
jaws. =3D
> > Now I
> > know what you are going to say then they are going to have to
support =3D
> > said
> > scripts. Yep that is right. So some one had better be looking at =
=3D=20
> > thoughs scripts very cairfully. Or if they do not wish to support=20
> > that
script
> > because they did not write it then an email address to the person
that =3D
> > did
> > write it should be provided. Every support list for jaws every one
of =3D
> > them
> > should be listed on the fs web sight. And articals from this list
that
> > answer users questions should be added to the support bass. Now as
for
> > autherasation copy protection is a bad idea always has been always
will
=3D
> > be.
> > The begest problem I have with jaws is copy protection. I in the
> > course
=3D
> > of
> > using my pc have lost keys have had them damaged all kinds of things
> > =3D open book uses a key number system window eyes does conect out
> > loud does jaws should also. I do not like wpa I am sure I am not=20
> > going to like this =3D new
> > internet key system. As you can see we would be living the best of
all
> > worlds here we would have fast access using the free sorce system
for
> > scripts updated as needed by fs. We would have the bugs fixed in a
=3D
> > timely
> > manor. We would have the support we deserv. We would have a voice
in =3D
> > the
> > creation of the program we use every day. David p. makes a good
point =3D
> > when
> > he says that jaws for now is a head of the rest. It is. How long
can it
> > stay there with out the voice of the user. Remember windows it self
has
=3D
> > this
> > problem ms is not hearing the user. And this is why linix bassed
> > systems
=3D
> > are
> > becoming more and more the rage. I want to be heard I want my voice
> > to count I am sure you do also. If it is not soon fs is going to
> > find that
=3D
> > it
> > is no longer ahead. Of course everyone but mean seems to be happy
> > with
=3D
> > the
> > status quo here.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > =3D Behalf Of James
> > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:20 PM
> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >
> >
> > You can't fix what you don't know is wrong. As I said in another
> > email =3D just=3D20 posted, it may take until the next version to =
find a
> > bug. IF they =3D followed=3D20
> > your advice, we'd have a supremely buggy version of JFW 6.0 with a
less=3D20
> > than stable internet authorization, working anything but reliably
with=3D20
> > remote access, and freezing or just plain not cooperating on some of
> > the
=3D
> >
> > more advanced java-based websites. Then you'll be complaining
> > because=3D20 they're pushing things out to quickly, and not taking=20
> > time to make
sure=3D20
> > things work before they're released. Then, you'll be looking for
> > another
=3D
> >
> > screenreader, because this one's just plain unreliable. I say again,
> > =3D take=3D20 your pick. You can't have working, and fast. James,
> > List Admin
> >
> > At 11:08 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:
> >>Here here right now is what I say and as for your remark about
talking=3D20
> >>=3D3D about it here if we talk about it here maybe some of us note I
> >>have
=3D
> >
> >>already =3D3D done
> >>so will speak to fs regularly and voice the fact that we want it
> >>right =3D
> > =3D3D
> >>now
> >>and maybe more betas will get posted and maybe updates will happen
> >>more often. =3D3D20
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>=3D3D
=3D
> >
> >>Behalf Of James
> >>Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM
> >>To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >>
> >>
> >>But, since this isn't a Freedom Scientific list, debating about
> >>it=3D20 here=3D3D20 won't do much except make everyone angrier at =
the
situation.=3D20
> >>Truth is,=3D3D20 they're doing what they can with what they have.
> >>Every =3D
> > new=3D20
> >>version that=3D3D20 comes out has something new that some want, and =
=3D
> > leaves=3D20
> >>some others =3D3D wanting=3D3D20 something else. People wanted to be
> >>able =3D
> > to=3D20
> >>use JFW without an external=3D3D20 synthasizer, or for that matter, =
=3D
> > without=3D20
> >>any additional synthasizing=3D3D20 hardware, period. They finally =
got
> >>=3D
> > that=3D20
> >>in version 3.0. Then FS needed =3D3D to=3D3D20
> >>make it work with Windows Millennium. Most of that was done by 3.5,
> >>=3D
> > the=3D3D20
> >>rest by 4.0. The demand presented itself for Windows XP. 4.02
> >>covered =3D
> > =3D3D
> >>that.=3D3D20
> >>The demand presented itself to work with some of today's more =3D
> > advanced=3D3D20
> >>website technology, which prompted 4.5. 4.51 was released when some
> >>=3D3D parts=3D3D20 of tat technology were upgraded slightly, =
including=20
> >>MSN Messenger. =3D
> > And=3D3D20
> >>that's just a small example.
> >>The absolute truth? If FS waited to release all of these features in
> >>=3D
> > one =3D3D
> >>
> >>major version, we'd still be sitting on version 4.0 waiting for
things=3D20
> >>=3D3D like=3D3D20 increased functionality with Windows XP. We have =
to
> >>keep =3D
> > up=3D20
> >>as best we =3D3D can=3D3D20
> >>with the mainstream market, because that's what this and other =3D
> > products=3D3D20
> >>deal with. Unfortunately, if you keep up, you don't do it right and
> >>=3D
> > you=3D3D20
> >>have problems. IF you don't keep up, you do it right and you have
> >>=3D3D different=3D3D20 problems. Window Eyes is a perfect example of =
> >>this. Sure, they already =3D
> > =3D3D
> >>have=3D3D20
> >>remote access integrated into their software. But, is it done right?
> >>=3D
> > Not =3D3D
> >>if=3D3D20
> >>you go by some of the comments made on this list. Could it be done
> >>=3D3D better?=3D3D20 Most definitely. But, again, users of Window =
Eyes=20
> >>would be waiting for =3D
> > =3D3D
> >>it,=3D3D20
> >>just like users of JFW are. The real question is, which would you
> >>=3D3D prefer?=3D3D20 Right, or right now?
> >>
> >>James,
> >>List Admin
> >>
> >>At 09:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:
> >> >But for someone else's money, get it right first. Whose money
> >> >is=3D20 worth=3D3D20 more?
> >> >
> >> >Bruce
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Bruce Toews
> >> >E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web Site
> >> >(including info on my weekly commentaries):=3D3D20=3D20=20
> >> >http://www.ogts.net For the best oldies anywhere visit=3D3D20=3D20 =
> >> >http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> >> >
> >> >On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, jim grimsby wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Well for my money get it out get it out fast and fix bugs =
as=3D20
> >> > > they=3D3D20 come =3D3D3D up please and thank you!
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
> >> > > On=3D3D20 =3D3D3D Behalf Of Bruce Toews
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 2:20 PM
> >> > > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > The reality is that FS is caught between a rock and a hard
> >> > > place=3D20 in=3D3D20 =3D3D3D terms=3D3D3D20 of PR when it comes =
to=20
> >> > > release dates. =3D
> > Release=3D20
> >> > > a =3D3D
> >>product=3D3D20
> >> > > too soon, and =3D3D3D it's=3D3D3D20
> >> > > bug-ridden, and everyone whines about how they should have
wated.=3D20
> >> > > =3D3D
> >>Wait =3D3D3D
> >> > > and=3D3D3D20
> >> > > try to deal with bugs, and everyone whines about how the other
> >> > > guy
=3D
> >
> >> > > =3D3D
> >>got =3D3D3D
> >> > > it=3D3D3D20
> >> > > out sooner, why can't they? There's no winning.
> >> > >
> >> > > Bruce
> >> > >
> >> > > --=3D3D3D20
> >> > > Bruce Toews
> >> > > E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web
> >> > > Site=3D20 (including info on my weekly commentaries):=3D3D20 =
=3D
> > http://www.ogts.net=3D20
> >> > > =3D3D3D For the best oldies anywhere visit=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > > http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Chip Orange wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Well, being a software developer myself, I know that
> >> > >> release=3D20 dates=3D3D20 are =3D3D3D
> >> > >
> >> > >> always a tug of war between when you want it ready and when =
=3D
> > it=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > >> is=3D3D3D20 really ready. Different companies have =
differing=3D20
> >> > >> policies =3D3D
> >>as=3D3D20
> >> > >> to=3D3D3D20 exactly which wins in the struggle.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> =3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >> Chip
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> >> > >>> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =3D3D3D
> >> > >
> >> > >>> On Behalf Of hank
> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 3:06 PM
> >> > >>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >>> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> interesting they told me they didn't have a release date.
> >> > >>> funky
> >> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > >>> From: "Troy Burnham" <tburnham@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> > >>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:30 AM
> >> > >>> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>>> A friend of mine called FS the other day and was told that
> >> > >>>> =3D3D
> >>a=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> new version,
> >> > >>>> probably 6.0, will be out around the end of the year
> >> > >>>> I=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> think it was. I
> >> > >>>> don't know what will be in it though or if that is
> >> > >>>> even=3D3D20=3D20 accurate.=3D3D3D20 Troy
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> On Thursday 10/21/2004 01:17 PM, Jarrod Jicha said:
> >> > >>>>> does anyone know or has anyone heard anything about=3D20
> >> > >>>>> when=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> either an update,
> >> > >>>>> or a new version of jfw is coming out? was just =3D3D
> >>wondering,=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> also, does
> >> > >>>>> anyone either know, or have they heard what will be in =
=3D3D
> >>the=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> new version?
> >> > >>>>> --
> >> > >>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to =3D
> > jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > >>>>> To=3D3D3D20 unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a
> >> > >>>>> message =3D
> > =3D3D
> >>to=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> >> > >>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in =
=3D3D
> >>the=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> subject line.
> >> > >>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received =
=3D3D
> >>from=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> the list, or
> >> > >>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=3D20
> >> > >>>>> list.=3D3D20 Rather =3D3D3D
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> --
> >> > >>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >>>> =3D3D
> >>To=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> >> > >>>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message=3D20
> >> > >>>> to=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> >>
> >> > >>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=3D20
> >> > >>>> the=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> subject line.
> >> > >>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received =3D3D
> >>from=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> the list, or=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=3D20
> >> > >>>> list.=3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> >>
> >> > >>>> Rather=3D3D3D3D20 contact the list owner at=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > >>>> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >>> =3D3D
> >>To=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> >> > >>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message=3D20
> >> > >>> to=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D3D20=3D3D20 jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with =
the
word=3D20
> >> > >>> unsubscribe in the=3D3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> >>=3D3D3D
> >> > > subject=3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> line. Archives located at:
> >> > >>> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received=3D20
> >> > >>> from=3D3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> >>
> >> > >>> the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post =3D3D
> >>them=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> >> > >>> to the list. Rather contact the list owner
> >> > >>> at=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D20=3D20 jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx =
=3D3D3D3D20
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> To post a message to the list, send it to =
jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
> >> > >> To=3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> >>
> >> > >> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message
> >> > >> to=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
=3D
> >
> >> > >> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
> >> > >> the=3D3D20=3D20 subject=3D3D3D20 line. Archives located =
at:=3D3D20=3D20=20
> >> > >> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >>
> >> > >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received =
from=3D20
> >> > >> the=3D3D20 list,=3D3D3D20 or the way the list is being run, do =
not
> >> > >> =3D
> > post=3D20
> >> > >> them to =3D3D
> >>the=3D3D20
> >> > >> list. Rather =3D3D3D
> >> > >
> >> > >> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >>
> >> > > --
> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D
> > To=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message =
to=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=3D20 =
> >> > > subject=3D3D20 line. Archives located at:=3D20=20
> >> > > //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >
> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from =3D
> > the=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > > list, or =3D3D3D the way the list is being run, do not post =
them
to=3D20
> >> > > the=3D3D20 list. Rather contact =3D3D3D the list owner at=3D20
> >> > > jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D
> > To=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=3D20
> >> > subject=3D3D20 line.
> >> > > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >
> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from =3D
> > the=3D3D20=3D20
> >> > > list,
> >> > or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the
> >> > list.=3D20 Rather contact the list owner at=20
> >> > jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >
> >> >--
> >> >To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
To=3D20
> >> >unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=3D20=20
> >> >jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> >=3D
> > =3D3D
> >>line.
> >> >Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >
> >> >If you have any concerns about the list, post received from =
the=3D20
> >> >list,=3D3D20 or the way the list is being run, do not post them to
the=3D20
> >> >list. Rather=3D3D20 contact the list owner at
> >> >jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> >>unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=3D20=20
> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=20
> >>subject=3D20 line. Archives located at:=20
> >>//www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>
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> >>list,=3D20 or =3D3D the way the list is being run, do not post them =
to=20
> >>the list.=3D20 Rather contact =3D3D the list owner at=20
> >>jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> >>unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject =
=3D
> > line.
> >>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>
> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >>list,=3D20 or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the =
> >>list. Rather=3D20 contact the list owner at =
jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject=20
> > line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> > list, or
=3D
> > the
> > way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact
=3D
> > the
> > list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > --
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject=20
> > line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> > list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> > list. Rather contact the
> > list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > --
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject=20
> > line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> > list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> > list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
> or
the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather =
contact
the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or =
the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact =
the=20
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or =
the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact =
the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or =
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--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
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