RE: update or new version of jfw?
- From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:31:02 -0400
James,
I really thought it was $900 also; and the pro version (and a lot of pcs
are now coming with xp/pro as the only option) is $1200.
=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
>=20
> Woo. I'm getting $700 a month, and JFW standard with SMA=20
> included is roughly $700. So, thank the gods for creditcards.
> James
>=20
> At 11:28 AM 10/22/2004, you wrote:
> > JAWS 9X - JAWS 5 Standard for 9x/Me/XP Home $895.00 and=20
> what income=20
> >you getting?
> >mines only 564 and after rent and bills and stuff and the=20
> usual I get=20
> >about 100 dollars or 150 or so a month.
> >and as I also stated I was luck enuph that the agency helped=20
> helped with me.
> >take care
> >hank
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "James" <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:16 AM
> >Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> >
> >
> > > $900? Where do you buy from? Mine cost 6. And yes, I'm on a fixed=20
> > > income and can afford it.
> > > James
> > >
> > > At 11:13 AM 10/22/2004, you wrote:
> > >>if fs lowered the price would more customers purchase it?
> > >>just curious
> > >>people on a fix income and the average blind person can't=20
> get jaws=20
> > >>and when the blind agencies won't get them for the blind=20
> person then=20
> > >>there screwed.
> > >>I am lucky mine helped me but I no firneds who were not so lucky.
> > >>the 900 bucks is personally a out ragious price small=20
> market or not.
> > >>just my 2 cents.
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 4:35 AM
> > >>Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Jim and all,
> > >> >
> > >> > Three things.
> > >> >
> > >> > 1> there's no reason the bugs as they usually are=20
> cannot be fixed=20
> > >> > 1> in a
> > >> > new
> > >> > release along with adding some new features.
> > >> >
> > >> > 2> you said there used to be a company. Why do you=20
> think it is gone?
> > >> >
> > >> > 3> You talk about adding support, but where is the=20
> money going=20
> > >> > 3> to come
> > >> > from
> > >> > to do this? I'm not saying you are rong or that we should not=20
> > >> > have a better product, but the money to do the things=20
> you suggest=20
> > >> > needs to be there and by and large in today's at market, it is=20
> > >> > not there. We need support for instance to a much=20
> wider array of=20
> > >> > tools than we have, but there is only support for applications=20
> > >> > for which there is money provided.
> > >> >
> > >> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> > >> >
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 6:18 AM
> > >> > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi, well you can have working and fast. There was a=20
> company that=20
> > >> > I will =3D not name here that did just that. Yes there=20
> were bugs=20
> > >> > but the bugs got =3D fixed quick. New features came=20
> along all the=20
> > >> > time and new releaces happened offten fixing bubug=20
> that came up=20
> > >> > and adding features when needed. As =3D you said quite a lot =
of=20
> > >> > the time new bugs were interduced but we already =3D have that=20
> > >> > problem as it is. For example there were no problems with the=20
> > >> > type =3D key function in jaws 5.0 there is now. Lots of=20
> bugs were=20
> > >> > fixed. But if a =3D lot of these new features and bugs were=20
> > >> > realeced to the user as they were =3D coded they would have =
been=20
> > >> > reported faster and fewer changes would have been =3D=20
> maid in the=20
> > >> > mean time. As for jaws 6.0 we are not ready for a=20
> major upgraid=20
> > >> > =3D yet.
> > >> > To many things need to be done and fixed so updates to the=20
> > >> > program about =3D
> > >> > 5
> > >> > or six I would think need to come out in the mean time=20
> corecting=20
> > >> > =3D problems.
> > >> > If you ask me 6 should come out about the time ms releces the=20
> > >> > next =3D version of windows. It should come out on the=20
> same day as=20
> > >> > that version and they should be able to anounce=20
> support for that=20
> > >> > version. In the mean time =3D they should be working on=20
> delivering=20
> > >> > the things they said they were going to deliver and fix what=20
> > >> > needs fixing. Also some one needs to get on this =3D=20
> list and all=20
> > >> > the other lists for jaws and start reading the mail=20
> that comes =3D=20
> > >> > in so that they can aid the users and add the remarks=20
> to the data=20
> > >> > base. This company I will not name here did just that=20
> and I my=20
> > >> > self saw the things =3D I brought to the list being=20
> fixed and a lot=20
> > >> > of my own ideas went in to the program. Why? Because=20
> they heard=20
> > >> > there users. We as users need to =3D start making noise=20
> we need to=20
> > >> > tell them that we want to be heard. We need to =3D tell=20
> them that=20
> > >> > we will shell out our money but we want fast and good servus =
=3D=20
> > >> > more bank for our buck. We want a tol free number for=20
> support. =20
> > >> > The other company I speak of had it. We want more=20
> updates with=20
> > >> > more things fixed. =3D One every lets say 6 weeks. Even=20
> it if is a=20
> > >> > new script added on the jfw =3D lite web sight is tested=20
> by a tech=20
> > >> > and is desided it works well to provide =3D access to a program =
> > >> > then it should be a part of jaws. There should be a page =3D =
on=20
> > >> > the fs web sight for users to add there scripts for=20
> evaluation.=20
> > >> > If they provide access to a program at all they should=20
> be included with jaws.
> > >> > =3D
> > >> > Now I
> > >> > know what you are going to say then they are going to have to=20
> > >> > support =3D said scripts. Yep that is right. So some one had=20
> > >> > better be looking at =3D thoughs scripts very cairfully. Or if =
> > >> > they do not wish to support that script because they did not=20
> > >> > write it then an email address to the person that =3D=20
> did write it=20
> > >> > should be provided. Every support list for jaws every one of =
=3D=20
> > >> > them should be listed on the fs web sight. And articals from=20
> > >> > this list that answer users questions should be added to the=20
> > >> > support bass. Now as for autherasation copy protection=20
> is a bad=20
> > >> > idea always has been always will =3D be.
> > >> > The begest problem I have with jaws is copy=20
> protection. I in the=20
> > >> > course =3D of using my pc have lost keys have had them=20
> damaged all=20
> > >> > kinds of things =3D open book uses a key number system=20
> window eyes=20
> > >> > does conect out loud does jaws should also. I do not=20
> like wpa I=20
> > >> > am sure I am not going to like this =3D new
> > >> > internet key system. As you can see we would be=20
> living the best of
> > >> > all
> > >> > worlds here we would have fast access using the free=20
> sorce system=20
> > >> > for scripts updated as needed by fs. We would have the bugs=20
> > >> > fixed in a =3D timely manor. We would have the support=20
> we deserv. =20
> > >> > We would have a voice in =3D the creation of the program we use =
> > >> > every day. David p. makes a good point =3D when he says=20
> that jaws=20
> > >> > for now is a head of the rest. It is. How long can it=20
> stay there=20
> > >> > with out the voice of the user. Remember windows it self has =
=3D=20
> > >> > this problem ms is not hearing the user. And this is why linix=20
> > >> > bassed systems =3D are becoming more and more the rage. =20
> I want to=20
> > >> > be heard I want my voice to count I am sure you do=20
> also. If it=20
> > >> > is not soon fs is going to find that =3D it is no longer=20
> ahead. Of=20
> > >> > course everyone but mean seems to be happy with =3D the=20
> status quo=20
> > >> > here.
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> > >> > On =3D Behalf Of James
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:20 PM
> > >> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > You can't fix what you don't know is wrong. As I said=20
> in another=20
> > >> > email =3D just=3D20 posted, it may take until the next version =
to=20
> > >> > find a bug. IF they =3D followed=3D20 your advice, we'd have a=20
> > >> > supremely buggy version of JFW 6.0 with a less=3D20 than stable =
> > >> > internet authorization, working anything but reliably with=3D20 =
> > >> > remote access, and freezing or just plain not=20
> cooperating on some=20
> > >> > of the =3D
> > >> >
> > >> > more advanced java-based websites. Then you'll be complaining=20
> > >> > because=3D20 they're pushing things out to quickly, and=20
> not taking=20
> > >> > time to make sure=3D20 things work before they're=20
> released. Then,=20
> > >> > you'll be looking for another =3D
> > >> >
> > >> > screenreader, because this one's just plain unreliable. I say=20
> > >> > again, =3D take=3D20 your pick. You can't have working, and =
fast.
> > >> > James,
> > >> > List Admin
> > >> >
> > >> > At 11:08 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:
> > >> >>Here here right now is what I say and as for your remark about=20
> > >> >>talking=3D20 =3D3D about it here if we talk about it here=20
> maybe some=20
> > >> >>of us note I have =3D
> > >> >
> > >> >>already =3D3D done
> > >> >>so will speak to fs regularly and voice the fact that=20
> we want it=20
> > >> >>right =3D
> > >> > =3D3D
> > >> >>now
> > >> >>and maybe more betas will get posted and maybe updates will=20
> > >> >>happen more often. =3D3D20
> > >> >>
> > >> >>-----Original Message-----
> > >> >>From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> > >> >>On =3D3D =3D
> > >> >
> > >> >>Behalf Of James
> > >> >>Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM
> > >> >>To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >>Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>But, since this isn't a Freedom Scientific list,=20
> debating about=20
> > >> >>it=3D20 here=3D3D20 won't do much except make everyone=20
> angrier at the=20
> > >> >>situation.=3D20 Truth is,=3D3D20 they're doing what they can =
with=20
> > >> >>what they have. Every =3D
> > >> > new=3D20
> > >> >>version that=3D3D20 comes out has something new that=20
> some want, and=20
> > >> >>=3D
> > >> > leaves=3D20
> > >> >>some others =3D3D wanting=3D3D20 something else. People=20
> wanted to be=20
> > >> >>able =3D
> > >> > to=3D20
> > >> >>use JFW without an external=3D3D20 synthasizer, or for=20
> that matter,=20
> > >> >>=3D
> > >> > without=3D20
> > >> >>any additional synthasizing=3D3D20 hardware, period.=20
> They finally=20
> > >> >>got =3D
> > >> > that=3D20
> > >> >>in version 3.0. Then FS needed =3D3D to=3D3D20 make it work =
with=20
> > >> >>Windows Millennium. Most of that was done by 3.5, =3D
> > >> > the=3D3D20
> > >> >>rest by 4.0. The demand presented itself for Windows XP. 4.02=20
> > >> >>covered =3D
> > >> > =3D3D
> > >> >>that.=3D3D20
> > >> >>The demand presented itself to work with some of today's more =
=3D
> > >> > advanced=3D3D20
> > >> >>website technology, which prompted 4.5. 4.51 was released when=20
> > >> >>some =3D3D parts=3D3D20 of tat technology were upgraded =
slightly,=20
> > >> >>including MSN Messenger. =3D
> > >> > And=3D3D20
> > >> >>that's just a small example.
> > >> >>The absolute truth? If FS waited to release all of=20
> these features=20
> > >> >>in =3D
> > >> > one =3D3D
> > >> >>
> > >> >>major version, we'd still be sitting on version 4.0=20
> waiting for=20
> > >> >>things=3D20 =3D3D like=3D3D20 increased functionality with=20
> Windows XP.=20
> > >> >>We have to keep =3D
> > >> > up=3D20
> > >> >>as best we =3D3D can=3D3D20
> > >> >>with the mainstream market, because that's what this=20
> and other =3D
> > >> > products=3D3D20
> > >> >>deal with. Unfortunately, if you keep up, you don't do=20
> it right=20
> > >> >>and =3D
> > >> > you=3D3D20
> > >> >>have problems. IF you don't keep up, you do it right=20
> and you have=20
> > >> >>=3D3D different=3D3D20 problems. Window Eyes is a perfect=20
> example of=20
> > >> >>this. Sure, they already =3D
> > >> > =3D3D
> > >> >>have=3D3D20
> > >> >>remote access integrated into their software. But, is it done=20
> > >> >>right? =3D
> > >> > Not =3D3D
> > >> >>if=3D3D20
> > >> >>you go by some of the comments made on this list. Could it be=20
> > >> >>done =3D3D better?=3D3D20 Most definitely. But, again, users of =
> > >> >>Window Eyes would be waiting for =3D
> > >> > =3D3D
> > >> >>it,=3D3D20
> > >> >>just like users of JFW are. The real question is,=20
> which would you=20
> > >> >>=3D3D prefer?=3D3D20 Right, or right now?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>James,
> > >> >>List Admin
> > >> >>
> > >> >>At 09:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:
> > >> >> >But for someone else's money, get it right first.=20
> Whose money=20
> > >> >> >is=3D20 worth=3D3D20 more?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Bruce
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >--
> > >> >> >Bruce Toews
> > >> >> >E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web=20
> > >> >> >Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):=3D3D20=3D20=20
> > >> >> >http://www.ogts.net For the best oldies anywhere=20
> visit=3D3D20=3D20=20
> > >> >> >http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, jim grimsby wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > Well for my money get it out get it out fast and fix bugs=20
> > >> >> > > as=3D20 they=3D3D20 come =3D3D3D up please and thank you!
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> > >> >> > > [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
> > >> >> > > On=3D3D20 =3D3D3D Behalf Of Bruce Toews
> > >> >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 2:20 PM
> > >> >> > > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> > > Subject: RE: update or new version of jfw?
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > The reality is that FS is caught between a rock=20
> and a hard=20
> > >> >> > > place=3D20 in=3D3D20 =3D3D3D terms=3D3D3D20 of PR when it=20
> comes to=20
> > >> >> > > release dates. =3D
> > >> > Release=3D20
> > >> >> > > a =3D3D
> > >> >>product=3D3D20
> > >> >> > > too soon, and =3D3D3D it's=3D3D3D20 bug-ridden, and =
everyone=20
> > >> >> > > whines about how they should have wated.=3D20 =3D3D
> > >> >>Wait =3D3D3D
> > >> >> > > and=3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > > try to deal with bugs, and everyone whines about=20
> how the other guy
> > >> >> > > =3D
> > >> >
> > >> >> > > =3D3D
> > >> >>got =3D3D3D
> > >> >> > > it=3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > > out sooner, why can't they? There's no winning.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Bruce
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --=3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > > Bruce Toews
> > >> >> > > E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger:=20
> coke_drinker@xxxxxxxx Web
> > >> >> > > Site=3D20
> > >> >> > > (including info on my weekly commentaries):=3D3D20 =3D
> > >> > http://www.ogts.net=3D20
> > >> >> > > =3D3D3D For the best oldies anywhere visit=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > > http://www.treasureislandoldies.com
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Chip Orange wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> Well, being a software developer myself, I know=20
> that release=3D20
> > >> >> > >> dates=3D3D20 are =3D3D3D
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> always a tug of war between when you want it=20
> ready and when =3D
> > >> > it=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >> is=3D3D3D20 really ready. Different companies=20
> have differing=3D20
> > >> >> > >> policies =3D3D
> > >> >>as=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >> to=3D3D3D20 exactly which wins in the struggle.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >> Chip
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > >>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =3D3D3D
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >>> On Behalf Of hank
> > >> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 3:06 PM
> > >> >> > >>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> > >>> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> > >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> interesting they told me they didn't have a=20
> release date. funky
> > >> >> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> > >>> From: "Troy Burnham" <tburnham@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> >> > >>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:30 AM
> > >> >> > >>> Subject: Re: update or new version of jfw?
> > >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> A friend of mine called FS the other day and=20
> was told that =3D3D
> > >> >>a=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> new version,
> > >> >> > >>>> probably 6.0, will be out around the end of=20
> the year I=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> think it was. I
> > >> >> > >>>> don't know what will be in it though or if=20
> that is even=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> accurate.=3D3D3D20 Troy
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>> On Thursday 10/21/2004 01:17 PM, Jarrod Jicha said:
> > >> >> > >>>>> does anyone know or has anyone heard anything =
about=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>>> when=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> either an update,
> > >> >> > >>>>> or a new version of jfw is coming out? was just =3D3D
> > >> >>wondering,=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> also, does
> > >> >> > >>>>> anyone either know, or have they heard what=20
> will be in =3D3D
> > >> >>the=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> new version?
> > >> >> > >>>>> --
> > >> >> > >>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to =3D
> > >> > jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>>> To=3D3D3D20 unsubscribe from this mailing list,=20
> send a message =3D
> > >> > =3D3D
> > >> >>to=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word=20
> unsubscribe in =3D3D
> > >> >>the=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> subject line.
> > >> >> > >>>>> Archives located at:=20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> > >>>>>
> > >> >> > >>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received =3D3D
> > >> >>from=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> the list, or
> > >> >> > >>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post=20
> them to the=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>>> list.=3D3D20 Rather =3D3D3D
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>> --
> > >> >> > >>>> To post a message to the list, send it to=20
> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D3D
> > >> >>To=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> to=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word=20
> unsubscribe in=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> the=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> subject line.
> > >> >> > >>>> Archives located at:=20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received =3D3D
> > >> >>from=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> the list, or=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> the way the list is being run, do not post=20
> them to the=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> list.=3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >>>> Rather=3D3D3D3D20 contact the list owner at=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >>>> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> --
> > >> >> > >>> To post a message to the list, send it to=20
> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D3D
> > >> >>To=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message=3D20
> > >> >> > >>> to=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D3D20=3D3D20=20
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the
> > >> >> > >>> word=3D20
> > >> >> > >>> unsubscribe in the=3D3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> > >> >>=3D3D3D
> > >> >> > > subject=3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> line. Archives located at:=20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> > >>> =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received=3D20
> > >> >> > >>> from=3D3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >>> the list, or the way the list is being run, do=20
> not post =3D3D
> > >> >>them=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >>> to the list. Rather contact the list owner=20
> at=3D3D3D3D20=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >>> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D3D3D3D20
> > >> >> > >> --
> > >> >> > >> To post a message to the list, send it to=20
> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
> > >> >> > >> To=3D3D3D20 =3D3D
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a=20
> message to=3D3D3D20=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >> =3D
> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
> > >> >> > >> the=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >> subject=3D3D3D20 line. Archives located at:=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > >> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received from=3D20
> > >> >> > >> the=3D3D20 list,=3D3D3D20 or the way the list is=20
> being run, do not =3D
> > >> > post=3D20
> > >> >> > >> them to =3D3D
> > >> >>the=3D3D20
> > >> >> > >> list. Rather =3D3D3D
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > > --
> > >> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to=20
> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D
> > >> > To=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a=20
> message to=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word=20
> unsubscribe in the=3D20
> > >> >> > > subject=3D3D20 line. Archives located at:=3D20
> > >> >> > > //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received from =3D
> > >> > the=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > > list, or =3D3D3D the way the list is being run, do=20
> not post them
> > >> >> > > to=3D20
> > >> >> > > the=3D3D20 list. Rather contact =3D3D3D the list owner =
at=3D20
> > >> >> > > jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --
> > >> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to=20
> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =3D
> > >> > To=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe=20
> in the=3D20
> > >> >> > subject=3D3D20 line.
> > >> >> > > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received from =3D
> > >> > the=3D3D20=3D20
> > >> >> > > list,
> > >> >> > or the way the list is being run, do not post them=20
> to the list.=3D20
> > >> >> > Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >--
> > >> >> >To post a message to the list, send it to=20
> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To=3D20
> > >> >> >unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=3D20
> > >> >> >jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe=20
> in the subject =3D
> > >> > =3D3D
> > >> >>line.
> > >> >> >Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >If you have any concerns about the list, post=20
> received from the=3D20
> > >> >> >list,=3D3D20 or the way the list is being run, do not=20
> post them to
> > >> >> >the=3D20
> > >> >> >list. Rather=3D3D20 contact the list owner at=20
> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>--
> > >> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=3D20
> > >> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject=3D20
> > >> >>line. Archives located at:=20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >>
> > >> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> > >> >>list,=3D20
> > >> >>or =3D3D the way the list is being run, do not post them=20
> to the list.=3D20
> > >> >>Rather contact =3D3D the
> > >> >>list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>--
> > >> >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > >> >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject =3D
> > >> > line.
> > >> >>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >>
> > >> >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> > >> >>list,=3D20
> > >> >>or
> > >> >>the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> list. Rather=3D20
> > >> >>contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject
> > >> > line.
> > >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >
> > >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received=20
> from the list,
> > >> > or =3D
> > >> > the
> > >> > way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> list. Rather contact
> > >> > =3D
> > >> > the
> > >> > list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject
> > >> > line.
> > >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >
> > >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received=20
> from the list,
> > >> > or
> > >> > the
> > >> > way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> list. Rather contact
> > >> > the
> > >> > list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject
> > >> > line.
> > >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >> >
> > >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received=20
> from the list,
> > >> > or
> > >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> list. Rather
> > >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > >>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject line.
> > >>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >>
> > >>If you have any concerns about the list, post received=20
> from the list, or
> > >>the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> list. Rather
> > >>contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in=20
> the subject line.
> > > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> > >
> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received=20
> from the list, or
> > > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the=20
> list. Rather
> > > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >--
> >To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> >jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=20
> subject line.
> >Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> >If you have any concerns about the list, post received from=20
> the list, or=20
> >the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather=20
> >contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to=20
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the=20
> subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>=20
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from=20
> the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them=20
> to the list. Rather contact the list owner at=20
> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>=20
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Other related posts:
