[PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads
- From: "Dal Locke" <dlocke@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 13:07:13 -0500
Eric,
I am curious about how you use the wacom tablet. I went to their web site and
could not figure out how it works. I saw one model for $199. Is that the one
you use? Is there a menu and how do you operate allegro. Is it much better
than the mouse and xkey pad?
Thanks,
Dal
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hufstedler [mailto:ehufstedler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:10 PM
To: 'icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads
I have used a wacom pad quite a bit. Not perfect for layout, but I do like it.
Unfortunately, on wind*ws XP it's jittery and I haven't called wacom to sort
it out yet.
eric
-----Original Message-----
From: george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:46 PM
To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads
I worked for about 5-6 years in the '80s on an Instaview terminal on
ComputerVision. They had large (D size) magnetic digitizers and used a "pen"
with two "pick" buttons to draw or to select menu items (AutoDesk used the same
idea on a smaller scale when they wrote AutoCAD for the first PCs.) It was the
best and easiest entry system of any I have used, except when the pens shorted
and melted in your hand. I have often wished there were some way to interface
something like that to Allegro. You wanted a new button layout, you drew it
up, printed it out, and told the system which "button" did what.
I think the light pen "draw on the tube" systems would be pretty tiring for the
full-time user. No support for the arm while you are drawing :)
Voice systems would be a drag. By the time I could say what I wanted the
system to do, I would be seven steps behind what I could do with my xkeys and
mouse. Not to speak about teaching the system what I meant when I used that
"naval terminology" (you know, the unprintable kind).
--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272 Fax: 503-627-5587 <http://www.tektronix.com/>
http://www.tektronix.com <http://www.pcb-designer.com/>
http://www.pcb-designer.com
It's my opinion, not Tektronix'
-----Original Message-----
From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of richard moffat
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 15:19
To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads
Re: XKeys
That's the way that I configured my XKeys, and then found out others do it that
way as well.
As an example, here's a snippet of my Allegro env file. You'll notice four
blocks (xk1, xk2, xk3, xk4), with a key number after it.
The first comment lines are arranged in the shape of the keypad, and the
aliases follow"
#
# xk11 xk12 xk13 xk14 xk15 xk16 xk17 xk18 xk19
# xk110 xk111 xk112 xk113 xk114 xk115 xk116 xk117 xk118
# xk21 xk22 xk31 xk32 xk33 xk34 xk41 xk42
# xk23 xk24 xk35 xk36 xk37 xk38 xk43 xk44
# xk25 xk26 xk39 xk310 xk311 xk312 xk45 xk46
# xk27 xk28 xk313 xk314 xk315 xk316 xk47 xk48
# xk29 xk210 xk317 xk318 xk319 xk320 xk49 xk410
alias xk27 place_bound_top on
alias xk28 place_bound_top off
alias xk29 place_bound_bot on
alias xk210 place_bound_bot off
etc...
On the subject of user interfaces, I wonder how people would feel using
light-pens like they did for some ECAD systems in the '70s?
Failing that, maybe everything should be voice-activated:
"Draw top copper"
"X 2303 comma 2945"
"No down a bit"
"A bit more"
"draw right"
"stop"
"I SAID STOP"
...
Cheers,
Richard
>>> george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 16/05/2005 7:32:52 a.m. >>>
Why do you need to program that many strokes into a key?
All you need to do is program a unique sequence into each key. As an example I
use [a01], [b05] etc. to the unshifted keys; [a11], [b15] etc. for the shifted
keys (these are for the "Shift" in the xkeys box), {A01], [B01], for when the
shift on the keyboard is held down, [A11] and [B15] for both shifts. This
gives you a possible 4 different macros per key, for a possible 232 available
keys.
Then do a script that assigns the actual macro to the key (alias [a01] "iy
-$xk1;pop drill;next;pop swap" would be an example) . This script is called
from your "env" file (i.e. "source $HOME/pcbenv/xkey_alias") to load the key
macros on startup. This way, you can easily change the contents of the "key"
from inside allegro, giving you MUCH more flexibility than entering the macro
into the aux keyboard yourself.
You could have a different set of aliases for each program if you wanted.
Now you have an unlimited number of "strokes" per key, more than 200 buttons,
and toggling between different aliases. The layout is up to you.
BTW, if you are offended by the drop-downs, write a skill form that has
selection methods more to your liking that calls up the actual form and makes
the selection for you :)
I think the key thing is: The developers can't think of everything. I agree
that some of the things they do could be alleviated by having actual,
full-time, users consulted, and have occasionally hinted at that on this forum.
But the reason the scripting and programmability of Allegro is there is to
customize to the the user's preference and experience. I am sure the "softies"
have comments about the "hardies" using the tool, too. Learn to program the
tool and you won't be at their mercy any more and maybe understand why they
sometimes do bonehead things.
(and you will be MUCH more marketable, to boot)
I haven't found anything with more keys or capacity than the xkeys product, but
am always interested in hearing about them if anyone else knows. Now if they
would come up with an easily changeable keymat so you could remember what all
the durned keys are doing :D
--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272 Fax: 503-627-5587 <http://www.tektronix.com/>
http://www.tektronix.com <http://www.pcb-designer.com/>
http://www.pcb-designer.com
It's my opinion, not Tektronix'
-----Original Message-----
From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Greig
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:27
To: Icu-Pcb-Forum
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Programmable Keypads
Has anyone come across a keypad that:
# can be programmed with more than 3 strokes per key (a couple of hundred would
be about right)
# can be toggled between a number of different cad applications e.g. SI, PCB,
thermal, VHDL etc
# is well laid out for a big left hand and has proper 'clicky' buttons
# 50 to 200 buttons
X-keys falls short on the number of strokes, so what else is out there?
While I'm ranting about user interfaces, anyone else offended and irritated by
those pathetically small drop down boxes, material selection for example?
I've got a couple of hundred entries in my .dat file so having a scroll window
limited to about 10 just plain stinks.
There's plenty of other ones like that, and I aint too keen on manually
changing a great many forms files.
Would be nice if the softies developing CAD applications were actually tasked
with trying to use them for their intended function!!!
They could do with being reminded that we all have screens (4k x 2k pixels for
example!).
Best Regards
David Greig
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