[PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads

It's an rf pad and you use a pen with it.  When you push on the pad, it's
like clicking.  Hold it just above the pad (or rest lightly on the pad) and
it's like normal mouse motion.
Except: i had it set for absolute coordinates.  One spot on the pad = one
spot on the window.
 
When i was using it, i used it in my left hand, and the mouse in my right
for panning and probably others.  It's been so long that i can't remember
exactly what combination, but my inspiration for it was that mice bother my
hands.
 
Since it is jittery with my new computer, and i have just started doing
layout again, i'm just using the mouse in my left hand.
 
eric

-----Original Message-----
From: Dal Locke [mailto:dlocke@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:07 AM
To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads


Eric,
 
I am curious about how you use the wacom tablet.  I went to their web site
and could not figure out how it works.  I saw one model for $199.  Is that
the one you use?  Is there a menu and how do you operate allegro.  Is it
much better than the mouse and xkey pad?
 
Thanks,
 
Dal

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hufstedler [mailto:ehufstedler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:10 PM
To: 'icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads


I have used a wacom pad quite a bit.  Not perfect for layout, but I do like
it.  Unfortunately, on wind*ws XP it's jittery and I haven't called wacom to
sort it out yet.
 
eric

-----Original Message-----
From: george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:46 PM
To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads


 
I worked for about 5-6 years in the '80s on an Instaview terminal on
ComputerVision.  They had large (D size) magnetic digitizers and used a
"pen" with two "pick" buttons to draw or to select menu items (AutoDesk used
the same idea on a smaller scale when they wrote AutoCAD for the first PCs.)
It was the best and easiest entry system of any I have used, except when the
pens shorted and melted in your hand.  I have often wished there were some
way to interface something like that to Allegro.  You wanted a new button
layout, you drew it up, printed it out, and told the system which "button"
did what.
 
I think the light pen "draw on the tube" systems would be pretty tiring for
the full-time user.  No support for the arm while you are drawing :)
 
Voice systems would be a drag.  By the time I could say what I wanted the
system to do, I would be seven steps behind what I could do with my xkeys
and mouse.  Not to speak about teaching the system what I meant when I used
that "naval terminology" (you know, the unprintable kind).
-- 
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272         Fax: 503-627-5587  <http://www.tektronix.com/> 
http://www.tektronix.com     <http://www.pcb-designer.com/>
http://www.pcb-designer.com

It's my opinion, not Tektronix' 

-----Original Message-----
From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of richard moffat
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 15:19
To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Programmable Keypads


 
Re: XKeys
 
That's the way that I configured my XKeys, and then found out others do it
that way as well.
 
As an example, here's a snippet of my Allegro env file.  You'll notice four
blocks (xk1, xk2, xk3, xk4), with a key number after it.  
The first comment lines are arranged in the shape of the keypad, and the
aliases follow"
 
#
#      xk11  xk12  xk13  xk14  xk15  xk16  xk17  xk18  xk19
#      xk110 xk111 xk112 xk113 xk114 xk115 xk116 xk117 xk118
 
#   xk21  xk22      xk31   xk32   xk33   xk34      xk41  xk42
#   xk23  xk24      xk35   xk36   xk37   xk38      xk43  xk44
#   xk25  xk26      xk39   xk310  xk311  xk312     xk45  xk46
#   xk27  xk28      xk313  xk314  xk315  xk316     xk47  xk48
#   xk29  xk210     xk317  xk318  xk319  xk320     xk49  xk410

alias xk27 place_bound_top on
alias xk28 place_bound_top off
alias xk29 place_bound_bot on
alias xk210 place_bound_bot off
etc...
 
On the subject of user interfaces, I wonder how people would feel using
light-pens like they did for some ECAD systems in the '70s?   
 
Failing that, maybe everything should be voice-activated: 
"Draw top copper"
"X 2303 comma 2945"
"No down a bit"
"A bit more"
"draw right"
"stop"
"I SAID STOP"
...
 
Cheers,
Richard
 

>>> george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 16/05/2005 7:32:52 a.m. >>>

Why do you need to program that many strokes into a key?
 
All you need to do is program a unique sequence into each key.  As an
example I use [a01], [b05] etc. to the unshifted keys; [a11], [b15] etc. for
the shifted keys (these are for the "Shift" in the xkeys box), {A01], [B01],
for when the shift on the keyboard is held down, [A11] and [B15] for both
shifts.  This gives you a possible 4 different macros per key, for a
possible 232 available keys.
 
Then do a script that assigns the actual macro to the key (alias [a01] "iy
-$xk1;pop drill;next;pop swap" would be an example) .  This script is called
from your "env" file (i.e. "source $HOME/pcbenv/xkey_alias") to load the key
macros on startup.  This way, you can easily change the contents of the
"key" from inside allegro, giving you MUCH more flexibility than entering
the macro into the aux keyboard yourself.
You could have a different set of aliases for each program if you wanted.  
 
Now you have an unlimited number of "strokes" per key,  more than 200
buttons, and toggling between different aliases.  The layout is up to you.
 
BTW, if you are offended by the drop-downs, write a skill form that has
selection methods more to your liking that calls up the actual form and
makes the selection for you :)
 
I think the key thing is:  The developers can't think of everything.  I
agree that some of the things they do could be alleviated by having actual,
full-time, users consulted, and have occasionally hinted at that on this
forum.  But the reason the scripting and programmability of Allegro is there
is to customize to the the user's preference and experience.  I am sure the
"softies" have comments about the "hardies" using the tool, too.  Learn to
program the tool and you won't be at their mercy any more and maybe
understand why they sometimes do bonehead things.
 
(and you will be MUCH more marketable, to boot)

 
I haven't found anything with more keys or capacity than the xkeys product,
but am always interested in hearing about them if anyone else knows.  Now if
they would come up with an easily changeable keymat so you could remember
what all the durned keys are doing :D
 
-- 
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272         Fax: 503-627-5587  <http://www.tektronix.com/> 
http://www.tektronix.com     <http://www.pcb-designer.com/>
http://www.pcb-designer.com

It's my opinion, not Tektronix' 

-----Original Message-----
From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Greig
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:27
To: Icu-Pcb-Forum
Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Programmable Keypads


Has anyone come across a keypad that:
 
# can be programmed with more than 3 strokes per key (a couple of hundred
would be about right)
# can be toggled between a number of different cad applications e.g. SI,
PCB, thermal, VHDL etc
# is well laid out for a big left hand and has proper 'clicky' buttons
# 50 to 200 buttons
 
X-keys falls short on the number of strokes, so what else is out there?
 
While I'm ranting about user interfaces, anyone else offended and irritated
by those pathetically small drop down boxes, material selection for example?
I've got a couple of hundred entries in my .dat file so having a scroll
window limited to about 10 just plain stinks. 
There's plenty of other ones like that, and I aint too keen on manually
changing a great many forms files.
 
Would be nice if the softies developing CAD applications were actually
tasked with trying to use them for their intended function!!!
They could do with being reminded that we all have screens (4k x 2k pixels
for example!).
 
Best Regards
 
David Greig
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