Re: [icon-users] Masterclasses
- From: Mike Hobbs <mike.hobbs@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: icon-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:03:09 GMT
In message <4f3a64d343john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
John Harrison <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> That's an interesting idea. I suspect that the various presentations at
> user groups are a bit like master classes (though I've never been to one).
>
> A more permanent resource might be an FAQ somewhere (I've not checked the
> IconTech website to see if one exists already). Ideally, the load of
> answering questions would be shared though. I don't know how it would
> work, but I'm sure there are plenty of us would be willing to contribute.
>
> This list also provides a useful resource, though I suspect the threshold
> for asking questions is quite high.
>
> The 64,000$ question is 'what's wrong with rtfm? Much of the information
> is there, if we only knew what to look for, and where to find it. That is
> where I think there is a potential gap, because you need a level of
> understanding about the principles behind the software before you can
> effectively explore it. (EW, Impression, and a typewriter behave
> differently because they are designed to do different jobs.)
RTFM - A good point, often the problem with documentation is not
knowing what to look for (what the feature you're looking for might be
called). For example, (not related to TW/EW) I wanted to know how to
obtain appended arguments from a URL string in some javascript. I
looked under "arguments", "parameters", "?", "&", "url", "variable",
etc. and still didn't find it. Eventually I found it in some code that
I knew used the technique. The solution is really simple
"location.search.substring(1)" but its hard to find when "something
like" searches in indexes don't lead you to what you're looking for.
IF I had looked for "query string" I'd have found it, but I didn't.
I can't remember specifics but I know I've had the same issues with
EW manual. Its incredibly difficult to write manuals that cover all
the necessary things but don't scare off the user. With most
applications its quicker to google for how-tos than to look in the
manual. Modern applications really need electronic manuals with
"sounds-like" and "may-be-related to" search engines (google-like).
And then when you've found it the procedure needs to be simple to
follow (unlike so many Windows help files).
[snip]
> In my subsequent company (using Windows a decade later) I tried to pass on
> much of what I had learnt by running master classes to help staff whom I
> saw using software in very pedestrian, unproductive ways.
Regarding EW, inevitably nobody in the near vicinity is going to be
using it and so there is nobody to teach the class and no interested
students.
> One of the beauties of modern software is that you can explore it. When
> you think 'there ought to be a way of doing this', you can hunt through
> menus, etc and try things. Of course you have to have the urge to explore,
> and you have to understand enough to know which stones to turn over.
My response (incorporating reply to the original thread)...
In message <ea60613a4f.tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> In message of 31 Oct, Martin Wuerthner <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> <snip of perceived user problems which weren't at all>
> <snip of user wishes that were already available>
> <snip of one problem which was actually a bug>
> The greatest problem to me is getting to use a new all-singing,
> all-dancing program. The designers and programmers have invested
> thousands of man-hours in designing their master-work and we users
> expect to be able to pick them up and run after a few minutes.
<snip suggestion about master classes>
> Any comments?
There is an underlying issue here which would be interesting to
discuss but would be way off-topic. It sounds like Tim perhaps has the
same problem as me, in that, when you're engaged in doing real work,
and you're up against tight schedules, you don't have time to explore
the features of the tools. Also, once you are familiar with certain
features of a tool you tend to always do things the way you know that
works - even when there may be an easier way to do it that you don't
yet realize.
Its embarassing to find there are features you're unaware of, that
have been there for eons, but its amazing how many times this occurs.
Its an inevitable reality with feature-rich applications.
Unfortunately any kind of classes would be out of the question due to
lack of time. Personally I find this list forum most useful in
bringing to light features or techniques of which I may not previously
have been aware.
Obviously 'Column head' has been there all the time but somehow it
didn't trigger the "ah, thats what I need to do the job". Its
probably because I'm not a young, enthusiastic, computer nerd that
explores every feature of every application. I also have to use
Word and Excel sometimes and there I find that almost anything CAN
be done, but the investment in time needed to find out HOW always
makes it not worth the effort. That experience tends to dull one's
motivation to explore other feature-rich applications, as well as
the lack of time to do so. However, in the RISC OS field I frequently
find (often stumble across) great features which are actually really
easy to use.
> (I know that this mailing list is here to help us but it is not quite
> the same as interaction across a room.)
Agreed, but this forum doesn't require the same investment in time.
The great thing is that Martin and Mike so quickly show how things
can be done and I for one am very grateful. I'm just sorry it seems
to 'waste' a certain amount of their time. However, the good thing is
that other readers learn from the discussion. There are many stupid
questions I've not had to ask because someone else has asked and the
answer has been speedily forthcoming.
Thank you gentlemen, for helping us to use this great application.
--
Mike Hobbs
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