[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community

  • From: Edward Robbins <edd.robbins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:08:02 +0000

I'm not a haiku developer but am a "power user" and have contributed a
number (~10)
of ports to haiku ports, in both its old (bep) and new (hpkg)
incarnations. I was also a BeOS user and now develop (proprietary)
software for haiku and try to use it as my day-to-day OS (in fact, I
develop cross platform software for my day job and make sure it works
in haiku as "homework" because I prefer to work in haiku).

Anyway, the point of the above is to qualify the following; it took me
all of a day or so to get used to the new system, and about a week to
learn the quirks of developing under it, and I can't express how much
better haiku is because of package management. Having a ports system
and package management that is as simple and flexible as haiku's is
something no other OS offers.

I've followed the haiku dev list and the commit log for years, and
love seeing the steady progress of the system, the constructive and
inclusive discussion, and the following through of good design
principles and ideas by the haiku team. But this must be the third,
fourth, fifth or more time that this has been discussed... the recent
spate of heavy criticism from outsiders (or non-devs) followed by
elongated and fractious discussion is really frustrating and in my
opinion probably damaging for the team. It would be great if you could
end the discussion and move on. It's a subjective matter so perhaps a
vote or something is necessary, but I feel that you're flogging a dead
horse here, and wasting time that could be invested doing what you do
best, which is developing haiku! Don't let the trolls win!

Just my 2 pennies :)

Ed (munchausen)

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Pete Goodeve <pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:51:57AM +0100, Stephan A?mus wrote:
>>
>> Am 15.02.2015 um 23:50 schrieb pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx:
>> >I've been keeping quiet through all this, because last time I spoke up a
>> >few months ago I just got dumped on.  (:-/)
>>
>> You considered that "getting dumped on"?! I presume you mean responses
>> like this:
>>
>> https://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-development/Package-Management-was-Re-Whats-the-status-of-Haiku
>>
>> or
>>
>> https://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-development/Package-Management-was-Re-Whats-the-status-of-Haiku,8
>>
>> ? I might think twice before taking the time and engaging in any
>> discussion with you again, if you have no problem summarizing my output
>> and that of others as "getting dumped on". It just fits perfectly in
>> this "we versus them" picture that some people like to keep painting, no?
>>
> Well, that remark was intended to be slightly flippant -- hence the emoticon 
> --
> but yes, I did feel rather dumped on.  Maybe it was not what you intended,
> but the general tone I read was "This has all been decided.  No point in
> objecting now."  It seemed that no-one was actually listening to me.
> The fact that I hadn't known about any prior discussion was deemed
> to be my fault.
>
> [I keep thinking of the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, and the
> "Hyperspatial Bypass"...  "It's been on display in your local  office in
> Alpha Centauri for fifty years.  You've had plenty of time to lodge
> a complaint"  (:-)]
>
> At the time I seemed a lone voice, so I just ended up completely discouraged.
> Now I see that there are others who were as blindsided as I was, and who
> also think things could be done much more cleanly, and without loss to
> any stakeholders.  It's a shame this thread was started by a troll, with
> presumably the intention to polarize, but by now maybe there have been
> enough folks speaking up to start a bit of a rethink.
>
> One of the arguments I've kept hearing from those in favour of the current
> setup is that nobody has specified what has been broken.  The problem,
> I think, is that the breaks are small and diffuse, but overall they add up
> to major pain.  They are felt, but are hard to detail.
>
> One headache is for those of us who have been using BeOS/Haiku for
> a long time, and have built up an extensive, comfortable, personal
> environment.  As I just mentioned yesterday, I've been putting stuff
> in ~/config/bin etc for years (and more lately in /boot/common) so
> I can't just update my working system to PM.
>
> If ~/config had been left alone, and a packaged version introduced
> alongside it, there would be no disruption, and packages could be
> smoothly introduced as they become available.  It is a really silly
> argument to say that maintained stuff 'should' be packaged.  Yes,
> presumably it will be, eventually.  Meanwhile there is distress.
> Not everyone has the time or motivation to jump in and immediately
> update their old stuff.
>
> For similar reasons I think /boot/common should be restored.  It
> needn't actually have anything in it in a default system, but the
> search paths  should be there for access if needed.
>
> OK, sorry, another rant.  I'll shut up now.
>
>         -- Pete --
>

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