[gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@xxxxxx>
- To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:37:02 -0000
(For some reason, I was not getting messages from the list for a few days
until a good bunch of them came down tonight.) Now, also, drivers' services
and information, being mainly a private enterprise thing, are not
standardised across the board in most countries; so they cannot be assumed
to be using the best navigation devices. .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Granados" <gsgranados@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:58 PM
Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
I totally disagree.
1. Enabling driving centric functions in a blind specific application is a
good idea because it allows us to understand the route structures and
directions that drivers will use. So, providing directions to a driver for
example will be simplified with the features but made more complex if for
example walking is always assumed.
2. Understanding the routes taken and the path chosen for driving from point
A to point B can help the blind user budget time and even money more
effectively by having a better understanding of the intire trip process.
This sort of relates to the braille on drive up ATM machines thing. On the
surface you'd think why or isn't that a wasted effort. On closer
examination though you realize that many times it's the blind passenger in
the back seat who's taking advantage of that facility from the back seat.
Same here while it might not seem obvious I think there's some value here.
Maybe I just fit in the more information is good information camp.
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ari Moisio" <arimo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:34 PM
Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
> Hi
>
> IMO it makes no sense to build features for sighted drivers to
> navigators for the blind. There must be more important features to
> concentrate.
>
> There are free gps navigators for mobile hones, there are cheap
> navigators (at least compared to prices of 'our' navigators). They are
> designed just for that, guiding sighted driver around. There should be no
> need for the blind to use his/her navigator to guide the driver.
>
> Of course blind pedestrian users need their own navigation system for
> roundabout but that same system does not need to guide sighted driver
> around.
>
>
>
> You can still escape from the Gates of hell: Use Linux!
> --
> mr. M01510
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Carol Pearson wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Peter, I do agree with your assessment that this is indeed a flaw in the
>> system, not because of any bad programming on Charles' part (to be sure),
>> but rather because understanding still seems to be limited on the
>> importance of this feature being improved because most visually impaired
>> people have a limited concept of roundabouts and cannot improve on this
>> for themselves. Therefore, though there's nothing "wrong" with the system
>> as it is, to improve by giving exit numbers would just make a really good
>> system that much better and, for me personally, I'd then feel confident
>> about directing my drivers. As it is, with heaps of roundabouts to
>> navigate, I just don't use my GPS in a car for the purpose of navigation.
>> This is a shame since both myself and my drivers could benefit from such
>> a change.
>>
>> Anyway, we're in danger of "doing this to death" and I don't want that
>> because I really do appreciate Charles' work and Senderogroup's fine
>> product.
>>
>> I just want to suggest that most of us who use roundabouts are having so
>> much difficulty in giving directions using this method that we simply
>> don't do it.
>>
>> Those who do not use or have roundabouts may not fully comprehend the
>> severity of the problem for those of us it affects. Basically, we find
>> ourselves having to read verbatim some fairly lengthy instructions,
>> rather quickly, and really can't expect our driver to understand what
>> we're saying ... so there's a pretty high stress level here as well as an
>> inability to understand the instructions ourselves in the first place.
>> It is true I won't fully understand "Take the 3rd exit", ... but I don't
>> need to know all the intricacies because I know my driver will understand
>> such an instruction!
>>
>> Anyway, I'll try to wait patiently and apologise that I have spoken at
>> length about this issue from time to time. Now I'll stop! <Smiles>
>>
>> --
>> Carol
>> carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bosher" <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:21 PM
>> Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
>>
>>
>>> Hi Malaina, and All,
>>>
>>> A roundabout is sometimes called a traffic circle in the US I believe.
>>> It iis a circular road with four or more roads all meeting. So, for
>>> example, instead of a four-way junction where you can either turn left,
>>> right, or go sstraight on, you ddrive onto the roundabout, and then go
>>> around the circle until you come to the road you need. It is supposed
>>> to help traffic flow more smoothly, and they are absolutely everywhere
>>> in the UK.
>>>
>>> Like Alice, who I thought put her points with grace and clarity, I take
>>> issue with just one thing that Charles's said. I don't think this is
>>> just one more feature being requested by a small minority, but rather a
>>> real flaw in an otherwise superb system. If Charles or Mike were to
>>> spend a week or two in the UK, perhaps it would keep its rightful place
>>> on the to-do list.
>>>
>>> Ever hopefully,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> At 02:08 PM 12/20/07, you wrote:
>>>> Could someone explain to me what a round about is? I am not sure I
>>>> know what these are and I want to understand.
>>>>
>>>> Malaina
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "alice dampman" <alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:11:15 -0500
>>>>> Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
>>>>
>>>>> Charles,
>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>> "I can't for example spend all my time
>>>>> working on just thing that may only help out a select few people
>>>> or
>>>>> when we release we would get hammered by those users who don't
>>>> need
>>>>> such an enhancement and will scream why are we forcing them to
>>>> pay
>>>>> for this upgrade when it only helps out some users. "
>>>>> Quite frankly, IMO it would be better to pay attention to those
>>>> requesting,
>>>>> even pleading for a feature that is vital to their everyday
>>>> navigation and
>>>>> ignore those who scream if some feature added is not necessary to
>>>> them. No
>>>>> matter what you do, there are going to be some who like it, need
>>>> it, can't
>>>>> live without it and some who never use it. So why is this
>>>> roundabout matter
>>>>> any different from any other?
>>>>> I live in Boston, and we have tons of these roundabouts all
>>>> over the
>>>>> place.
>>>>> Alice
>>>>> alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Charles LaPierre" <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:00 AM
>>>>> Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Carol,
>>>>
>>>>>> I do understand there is a difference here between a "would be
>>>> nice cool
>>>>>> feature" and one that makes the system more usable for people.
>>>> Its a fine
>>>>>> balancing act I must perform to try and satisfy all users.
>>>> Rest assured
>>>>>> once I set my mind to the task it will be done and done right,
>>>> but at this
>>>>>> point its a huge unknown how much work that will involve. I
>>>> can't for
>>>>>> example spend all my time working on just thing that may only
>>>> help out a
>>>>>> select few people or when we release we would get hammered by
>>>> those users
>>>>>> who don't need such an enhancement and will scream why are we
>>>> forcing them
>>>>>> to pay for this upgrade when it only helps out some users. I
>>>> seem to
>>>>>> recall an issue Humanware had with this very issue.
>>>>>> That being said, I know how important navigating Roundabouts is
>>>> especially
>>>>>> outside the US and Canada where they are more common and Sendero
>>>> will
>>>>>> seriously consider this moving forward.
>>>>
>>>>>> Respectfully
>>>>>> Charles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> At 07:42 AM 12/19/2007, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Charles,
>>>>
>>>>>>> Whilst I truthfully do understand that people are asking for
>>>> other good
>>>>>>> and exciting things, I think we need to be realistic here - we're
>>>> not just
>>>>>>> asking for this because it would be "cool", it just doesn't work
>>>> well for
>>>>>>> us here in the UK otherwise. In fact, for some of us it just
>>>> doesn't work
>>>>>>> ... so the whole system therefore is very much under-used as a
>>>> result.
>>>>
>>>>>>> I repeat, this is not just a "fun thing", it is a necessity!
>>>>
>>>>>>> I personally was a little disappointed with what I saw coming
>>>> into 4.2
>>>>>>> because I'd hardly call these "essentials". Perhaps when I try
>>>> them for
>>>>>>> myself very soon I'll be pleased with what I see; but, however
>>>> leased I
>>>>>>> am, these things won't make the roundabouts more understandable
>>>> and/or
>>>>>>> workable for me. ...
>>>>
>>>>>>> Please, please Charles, try to understand where we're coming
>>>> from. Many
>>>>>>> of us are hampered enough with roundabouts because of our lack of
>>>> visual
>>>>>>> concept, so we need it to be made as easy as possible for us to
>>>> know what
>>>>>>> to tell our drivers. We know it's a big undertaking and want to
>>>> be as
>>>>>>> patient as we can, but patience runs out if there appears to be
>>>> less than
>>>>>>> 100 percent commitment to our needs here. I am sure that isn't
>>>> the case,
>>>>>>> so look forward to your making more headway soon.
>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Carol
>>>>>>> carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles LaPierre"
>>>>>>> <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:37 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>>>>> Glad you are excited about GPS 4.2 (even if it doesn't have
>>>> roundabout
>>>>>>>> exits).
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Truthfully I have no idea of when this will be addressed, all I
>>>> can tell
>>>>>>>> you it is high on our priority list, but so are a lot of other
>>>> REALLY
>>>>>>>> cool things others have been asking for us for years.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Happy Holidays everyone!
>>>>>>>> Charles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 06:24 AM 12/19/2007, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Charles, and All,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since switching from Trekker a few months back , I've grown to
>>>> love
>>>>>>>>> Sendero GPS for ppedestrian use, and I'm excited about the 4.2
>>>> upgrade.
>>>>>>>>> However, when I need to help with navigation for a car journey,
>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>> quite often, then I have to use Wayfinder. Do you know just how
>>>> many
>>>>>>>>> roundabouts there are in this country? the way-point method
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> mention truly isn't workable. By the time you figure out one
>>>>>>>>> roundabout, you will already have arrived at the next one.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I truly do understand tthat it's complex, and that you are
>>>> working on
>>>>>>>>> it. I am just wondering whether you could give us an idea of when
>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>>> be able to address it, and in hopes that it keeps this high on
>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> priority list.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From an otherwise happy and appreciative user.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Respect,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 11:32 PM 12/17/07, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Catherine,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are correct that most mainstream products do tell you the
>>>> exit
>>>>>>>>> number for roundabouts but this is something not yet available
>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> Sendero GPS. It is high on our priority list especially for the
>>>> UK and
>>>>>>>>> Australia, but as of GPS 4.2 this has not yet been implemented.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only option right now is you could explore the roundabout by
>>>>>>>>> moving forward waypoint by waypoint around the roundabout and
>>>> count the
>>>>>>>>> number of intersections between the entrance and exit, but this
>>>> may not
>>>>>>>>> be always 100% accurate as it may stop at an overpass crossing
>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> roundabout, but as long as you are aware of that, this may help
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> navigate the roundabouts.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The command to move forward along your route waypoint by waypoint
>>>>>>>>> is Read Up arrow on a QT or dots 2356 on a BT.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>>>>>> Charles.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At 03:15 PM 12/17/2007, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think this has been discussed here before but I didn't have
>>>>>>>>> much reason to take it in then, and I can't remember what the
>>>> conclusion
>>>>>>>>> was. But I'm having trouble understanding the instructions
>>>> Sendero GPS
>>>>>>>>> gives in a vehicle route when it comes to roundabouts. It seems
>>>> to say
>>>>>>>>> take the exit leading northwest or whatever - giving a compass
>>>>>>>>> direction, and saying the name of the road. But in my experience
>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> from people's written/verbal instructions and from other
>>>> (mainstream so
>>>>>>>>> to speak) GPS systems, the number of the exit is usually given.
>>>> Like
>>>>>>>>> "take the second exit from the roundabout".
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any way I can tell from the instructions currently
>>>>>>>>> given, what number the exit will be? Or must I rely on looking
>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> name of the road? (If I'm in a car with a sighted driver I
>>>> mean).
>>>>>>>>> Because finding road names doesn't always seem possible/easy,
>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>> because the signage is rubbish or people don't use their eyes I
>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know - but it doesn't always work whatever the reason.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips for understanding
>>>>>>>>> the roundabout instructions...
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Catherine
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Charles M. La Pierre CTO
>>>>>>>>>> Sendero Group, LLC
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lat. 37 15' 25" N Lon: 121 53' 04" W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
>>>>>>>>> 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 12/17/07 02:13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peter Bosher,
>>>>>>>>> Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> http://www.soundlinks.com/
>>>>>>>>> Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797
>>>>>>>>> Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146
>>>>>>>>> snail://
>>>>>>>>> SoundLinks Limited,
>>>>>>>>> 43 Broadlands Avenue,
>>>>>>>>> Chesham,
>>>>>>>>> Bucks.
>>>>>>>>> HP5 1AL
>>>>>>>>> England.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charles M. La Pierre CTO
>>>>>>>> Sendero Group, LLC
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lat. 37 15' 25" N Lon: 121 53' 04" W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Charles M. La Pierre CTO
>>>>>> Sendero Group, LLC
>>>>
>>>>>> Lat. 37 15' 25" N Lon: 121 53' 04" W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
>>>>>> 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 12/17/2007 2:13 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
>>>> 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date: 12/19/07 07:37
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> Peter Bosher,
>>> Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> http://www.soundlinks.com/
>>> Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797
>>> Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146
>>> snail://
>>> SoundLinks Limited,
>>> 43 Broadlands Avenue,
>>> Chesham,
>>> Bucks.
>>> HP5 1AL
>>> England.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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