Hi all,Peter, I do agree with your assessment that this is indeed a flaw in the system, not because of any bad programming on Charles' part (to be sure), but rather because understanding still seems to be limited on the importance of this feature being improved because most visually impaired people have a limited concept of roundabouts and cannot improve on this for themselves. Therefore, though there's nothing "wrong" with the system as it is, to improve by giving exit numbers would just make a really good system that much better and, for me personally, I'd then feel confident about directing my drivers. As it is, with heaps of roundabouts to navigate, I just don't use my GPS in a car for the purpose of navigation. This is a shame since both myself and my drivers could benefit from such a change.
Anyway, we're in danger of "doing this to death" and I don't want that because I really do appreciate Charles' work and Senderogroup's fine product.
I just want to suggest that most of us who use roundabouts are having so much difficulty in giving directions using this method that we simply don't do it.
Those who do not use or have roundabouts may not fully comprehend the severity of the problem for those of us it affects. Basically, we find ourselves having to read verbatim some fairly lengthy instructions, rather quickly, and really can't expect our driver to understand what we're saying ... so there's a pretty high stress level here as well as an inability to understand the instructions ourselves in the first place. It is true I won't fully understand "Take the 3rd exit", ... but I don't need to know all the intricacies because I know my driver will understand such an instruction!
Anyway, I'll try to wait patiently and apologise that I have spoken at length about this issue from time to time. Now I'll stop! <Smiles>
-- Carol carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bosher" <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundabouts
Hi Malaina, and All,A roundabout is sometimes called a traffic circle in the US I believe. It iis a circular road with four or more roads all meeting. So, for example, instead of a four-way junction where you can either turn left, right, or go sstraight on, you ddrive onto the roundabout, and then go around the circle until you come to the road you need. It is supposed to help traffic flow more smoothly, and they are absolutely everywhere in the UK.Like Alice, who I thought put her points with grace and clarity, I take issue with just one thing that Charles's said. I don't think this is just one more feature being requested by a small minority, but rather a real flaw in an otherwise superb system. If Charles or Mike were to spend a week or two in the UK, perhaps it would keep its rightful place on the to-do list.Ever hopefully, Peter At 02:08 PM 12/20/07, you wrote:Could someone explain to me what a round about is? I am not sure I know what these are and I want to understand.Malaina----- Original Message ----- From: "alice dampman" <alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:11:15 -0500 Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundaboutsCharles, You wrote: "I can't for example spend all my time working on just thing that may only help out a select few peopleorwhen we release we would get hammered by those users who don'tneedsuch an enhancement and will scream why are we forcing them topayfor this upgrade when it only helps out some users. " Quite frankly, IMO it would be better to pay attention to thoserequesting,even pleading for a feature that is vital to their everydaynavigation andignore those who scream if some feature added is not necessary tothem. Nomatter what you do, there are going to be some who like it, needit, can'tlive without it and some who never use it. So why is thisroundabout matterany different from any other? I live in Boston, and we have tons of these roundabouts allover theplace. Alice alicedh@xxxxxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles LaPierre" <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundaboutsHi Carol,I do understand there is a difference here between a "would benice coolfeature" and one that makes the system more usable for people.Its a finebalancing act I must perform to try and satisfy all users.Rest assuredonce I set my mind to the task it will be done and done right,but at thispoint its a huge unknown how much work that will involve. Ican't forexample spend all my time working on just thing that may onlyhelp out aselect few people or when we release we would get hammered bythose userswho don't need such an enhancement and will scream why are weforcing themto pay for this upgrade when it only helps out some users. Iseem torecall an issue Humanware had with this very issue. That being said, I know how important navigating Roundabouts isespeciallyoutside the US and Canada where they are more common and Senderowillseriously consider this moving forward.Respectfully Charles.At 07:42 AM 12/19/2007, you wrote:Charles,Whilst I truthfully do understand that people are asking forother goodand exciting things, I think we need to be realistic here - we'renot justasking for this because it would be "cool", it just doesn't workwell forus here in the UK otherwise. In fact, for some of us it justdoesn't work... so the whole system therefore is very much under-used as aresult.I repeat, this is not just a "fun thing", it is a necessity!I personally was a little disappointed with what I saw cominginto 4.2because I'd hardly call these "essentials". Perhaps when I trythem formyself very soon I'll be pleased with what I see; but, howeverleased Iam, these things won't make the roundabouts more understandableand/orworkable for me. ...Please, please Charles, try to understand where we're comingfrom. Manyof us are hampered enough with roundabouts because of our lack ofvisualconcept, so we need it to be made as easy as possible for us toknow whatto tell our drivers. We know it's a big undertaking and want tobe aspatient as we can, but patience runs out if there appears to beless than100 percent commitment to our needs here. I am sure that isn'tthe case,so look forward to your making more headway soon.-- Carol carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles LaPierre" <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: <gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:37 PM Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Help understanding roundaboutsHi Peter, Glad you are excited about GPS 4.2 (even if it doesn't haveroundaboutexits).Truthfully I have no idea of when this will be addressed, all Ican tellyou it is high on our priority list, but so are a lot of otherREALLYcool things others have been asking for us for years.Happy Holidays everyone! Charles.At 06:24 AM 12/19/2007, you wrote:Hi Charles, and All,Since switching from Trekker a few months back , I've grown toloveSendero GPS for ppedestrian use, and I'm excited about the 4.2upgrade.However, when I need to help with navigation for a car journey,which isquite often, then I have to use Wayfinder. Do you know just howmanyroundabouts there are in this country? the way-point methodyoumention truly isn't workable. By the time you figure out one roundabout, you will already have arrived at the next one.I truly do understand tthat it's complex, and that you areworking onit. I am just wondering whether you could give us an idea of whenyou'llbe able to address it, and in hopes that it keeps this high onyourpriority list.From an otherwise happy and appreciative user.Respect,PeterAt 11:32 PM 12/17/07, you wrote:Hi Catherine,You are correct that most mainstream products do tell you theexitnumber for roundabouts but this is something not yet availablefor theSendero GPS. It is high on our priority list especially for theUK andAustralia, but as of GPS 4.2 this has not yet been implemented.The only option right now is you could explore the roundabout bymoving forward waypoint by waypoint around the roundabout andcount thenumber of intersections between the entrance and exit, but thismay notbe always 100% accurate as it may stop at an overpass crossingthisroundabout, but as long as you are aware of that, this may helpyounavigate the roundabouts.The command to move forward along your route waypoint by waypointis Read Up arrow on a QT or dots 2356 on a BT.Hope this helps Charles.At 03:15 PM 12/17/2007, you wrote:Hi,I think this has been discussed here before but I didn't havemuch reason to take it in then, and I can't remember what theconclusionwas. But I'm having trouble understanding the instructionsSendero GPSgives in a vehicle route when it comes to roundabouts. It seemsto saytake the exit leading northwest or whatever - giving a compass direction, and saying the name of the road. But in my experiencebothfrom people's written/verbal instructions and from other(mainstream soto speak) GPS systems, the number of the exit is usually given.Like"take the second exit from the roundabout".Is there any way I can tell from the instructions currentlygiven, what number the exit will be? Or must I rely on lookingfor thename of the road? (If I'm in a car with a sighted driver Imean).Because finding road names doesn't always seem possible/easy,whetherbecause the signage is rubbish or people don't use their eyes Idon'tknow - but it doesn't always work whatever the reason.So I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips for understandingthe roundabout instructions...CatherineCharles M. La Pierre CTO Sendero Group, LLCLat. 37 15' 25" N Lon: 121 53' 04" W-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 12/17/07 02:13--*******Peter Bosher, Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.soundlinks.com/ Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797 Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146 snail:// SoundLinks Limited, 43 Broadlands Avenue, Chesham, Bucks. HP5 1AL England.Charles M. La Pierre CTO Sendero Group, LLCLat. 37 15' 25" N Lon: 121 53' 04" WCharles M. La Pierre CTO Sendero Group, LLCLat. 37 15' 25" N Lon: 121 53' 04" W-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 12/17/2007 2:13 PM-- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date: 12/19/07 07:37-- ******* Peter Bosher, Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.soundlinks.com/ Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797 Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146 snail:// SoundLinks Limited, 43 Broadlands Avenue, Chesham, Bucks. HP5 1AL England.