I don't think we should forget that the Bible talks of the "open" firmament of heaven as being the sky in verse 20. I kind of think we have the earth, the open firmament, the firmament, and the WAF. Does that fly with you? Gary Shelton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bennett" <robert.bennett@xxxxxxx> To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:11 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: plenum effects atmosphere? > Dear Dr. Jones, > > I'll not deny > you a quick reply....... > > Amazing. There are just a few fuzzy areas to clarify. > > 1- <The atmosphere is therefore part of the firmament.> > Does this include atmospheric water, both visible (rain,clouds) and > invisible(vapor)? > Remember, the aquasphere and atmosphere are constantly exchanging water via > rain and evaporation. > > 2- <the dry land may be within the firmament> > It is written: > Gen 1:9 God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be > gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so > done. > > The land was below the water when the plenum was created (If the land > appeared now, it must have been created before). > My exegesis is that the plenum ends at the earth's surface, whether dry or > wet, since the land was formerly part of/under the water. > > Else, if the plenum penetrates the dry land, how far does it penetrate? Sea > level? To the core? What about the lakes and rivers above sea level? > > 3- <There is water surrounding the boundary of this plenum.> > Could this water be frozen....ice? > > 4- <If this reasoning is fairly sound, then the plenum must be completely > frictionless.> > Friction is the resistance to relative motion between 2 objects in contact. > In the case of the plenum one of the objects is invisible (so far). > If this means to you that the plenum cannot slow an object down, then I > respectfully disagree . > Perhaps a little more description of 'friction' would help. > > 5- <there would be paths within it for the Sun, Moon, planets and stars > (just like there are channels in the ocean).> > For future discussion - not now! > Are these paths static or dynamic? > The objects listed were inserted into the plenum by God. What about those > artifacts inserted by man - satellites? Do they also have paths pre-formed > into the plenum? > > Note that my questions are requests for information, not challenges. > > > Pax Christi, > > Robert > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dr. Neville Jones > > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:26 PM > > To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [geocentrism] Re: plenum effects atmosphere? > > > > > > Dear Robert, > > > > You are a bit of a dark horse, but you are an open-minded dark > > horse, that's for sure. And a poet to boot, although that's not so sure. > > > > As to your rude question, "What does Scripture say of the > > plenum's boundaries? What is its extent? How do you read it?", I > > respond as follows: > > > > The plenum, or firmament, was created on Day 2, before there was > > any other physical thing, except water. In particular, there was > > no dry ground. The atmosphere is therefore part of the firmament. > > Also, the dry land may be within the firmament, too. In fact, it > > almost certainly is now, because it was raised up significantly > > in parts after the Flood. > > > > There is water surrounding the boundary of this plenum. On the > > surface of that water is where I believe the third heaven starts > > (i.e., where God and all angelic beings reside.) > > > > If this reasoning is fairly sound, then the plenum must be > > completely frictionless. However, there would be paths within it > > for the Sun, Moon, planets and stars (just like there are > > channels in the ocean). > > > > As time goes by, > > I await your reply. > > > > Neville. > > > > Robert Bennett <robert.bennett@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > Dr. Jones, > > > > see RB: inserts > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dr. Neville Jones > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 10:27 PM > > > To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moon landings? > > > > > > > > > I believe that now is a good time to move this discussion on a little. > > > > > > We are seemingly all agreed that the Bible informs us the the > > > World is fixed and does not move in any way. > > > > RB: Geostatics I affirm today > > but a year ago would have said - Nay! > > > > > I'm not sidestepping the force issue. I'm just taking this one > > > step at a time. But let me ask you something ... if the plenum is > > > exerting some force on material objects, and this force is from > > > east to west, then why does it not affect the atmosphere? > > > > > > Neville. > > > > > > > RB: Excellent Q?, Dr. Jones. > > > > It's rude to answer a question with another, but so many of your positions > > surprise me, I don't really know what to expect of your metaphysics. > > > > So before I trigger what is potentially a long but enlightening > > thread, let > > me be Socratic and ask your indulgence to answer the following. I > > promise to > > respond in turn, but will understand if you choose not to pursue > > this issue. > > > > What does Scripture say of the plenum's boundaries? What is its > > extent? How > > do you read it? > > > > Gen 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and > > let it divide the waters from the waters. > > 7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the > > firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. DR > > > > > > Pax Christi, > > > > Robert > > > > --------------------------------- > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/05 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/05