# [geocentrism] Re: Dual Axis Proof

• From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
• To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
• Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 13:36:45 -0800 (PST)
```A correction was in blue "only the earth's axis of nightly rotation".....and
underlined where, in the main body......otherwise did you see the move liar
liar?......I object your honor and move to strike ( my own comments).....LOL

Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:      Dear Allen,
Are you responding to yourself?

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Dual Axis Proof

only the earth's axis of nightly rotation.....

Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:     1. Facing the same direction
year around?.......Not rotating.! ?..what in the world are you talking about?
..only the earth is tilted in the same direction not the observer, certainly is
not forced so as to be prevented from seeing the other directions ..Hey wake
up, its a sphere !? How is the observer force to only see one direction on a
sphere !? The observer can position himself any where on the sphere he likes.
He can also orientate himself parallel to any axis !!!???? ....That is a
ridiculous argument...look at the diagrams i gave you again.....If the base
line is irrelevant then parallel view are equivalent!

2. Moving around the sun is rotation at 24 hour intervals as long as the
observer is orientated is parallels the axis of ROTATION ( by definition) there
is no logical or mechanical reason the observer cannot or will not see the
rotation on that axis if it exist.....For crying out loud people only the
direction of the rotation is in question not the fact that the rotation
exist!.....The only difference between the annual and nightly is the size of
the circumference and the direction of the axis......look at the diagram that
is the postion a observe is in at 24 hour intervals and as long as the
expsoures are taken over a long enough period (160-365days or so) the observer
is in a real rotation about a real axis that he can and is oreinted to...

3. Forget this nonsens about stoping the nightly spin........it is
irrelevant!  No one is questioning that nightly star trails will be visible if
the exposures are taken year around there is no difference in taking a photo of
any rotational object such as a blade on a helicopter at 23 rpm or 24 RPM
whether or not you take photos of the rotation all within one rotation interval
or if you take the photos over a 365 intervals they will all still record the
exact same rotation ..that is moot issue and would not afect our ability to see
the other rotaion if it existed.......That has nothing to do with the issue!
Taking exposes at 24h 56min or 24 hour intervals has nothing to do with
rotation on the annual axis??.we are discussing a deviation from that axis not
the fact that a observer will see the nightly rational axis even if he takes
photos at different hours of the night in 365 day intervals ????..SO WHAT !? of
course you are going to see the same star trails you taking a
photograph of the very same thing?if you take a time lapse photography of a
spinning wheel that spins at 23.56 RPM at any interval other then 23.56rpm you
will see a rotation but only about that axis ..IT MAKES NO DIFFERNECE IF YOU
TAKE THEM ALL WIHTIN ONE REVOLUTION OR YOU TAKE THEM IN 365 ROTAIONAL INTERVALS
??.ITS JUST A PHOTO OF THE SAME EVENT OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME..SO
WHAT!?.we are discussing a different event a different axis altogether the fact
there is nightly star trails in photos taken with exposures all year long is
irrelevant! We are looking for the rotation around the solar axis ?not the
rotation around the blank spot just to the side of Polaris..!!!!!!!!!!!

The last photos i sent were only to demonstrate the axist and the path of
deviation if it existed the photogrpah would in fact just all be a blurr...the
problem is we have time lapse photography over the course of 365 days taken at
24 hour (midnight) intervals it is not blurry it clearly shows the same nightly
rotation taken at differnt times of the year ...and so it should, becuse it is
a photo of the exact same thing the nightly path.....we are looking for and
must have a secondary path ....

There is no reason you can give for why we do not see the annual path that
does not apply to the nightly path nor is ther any reason you can give to
expalin why we do not see the annual path that would not negate the nightly
path..........There is obviously still alot of confussion on this...

j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Philip,

Me in Red

Well finally I can begin to feel sane, because Paul has fallen...I do not
mean he was on the pedestal, but he managed to keep confusing me.. But now he
confirms his fall with this to Ja  "I concur 100%"

Jar said,  "he is facing the same direction all year long. If the observer
does not rotate with the axis, how can he see a star trail?"  The observer
would not actually be rotating, Yes moving around the sun, but not rotating..

And this is very incomplete, and thus lacking in accuracy, and is a
statement with the removal or stopping of the earths daily rotation. Now since
the north pole always points at Polaris, then any other direction an observer
may face on any other place on the planet will not change over the course of a
year. Therefore there is no rotation of the observer with respect to the stars.
So there is no contradiction in my statement. I am simply trying to separate
the real motions (in HC) so that the results of each motion can be determined,
only then can we determine if we fail to see them.

DIV {   MARGIN: 0px  }        And If you meant this Paul, shame again,
though you had it in quotes....
In my imagination, I thought of the Earth's relationship to the Sun in the
the same way we tend to think of the Moon's relationship to the Earth -- "If we
always see the same face, it can't be spinning!"

As you know the moon makes one complete rotation for every orbit of the
earth.

Philip.
----- Original Message -----
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Dual Axis Proof

Well finally I can begin to feel sane, because Paul has fallen...I do not
mean he was on the pedestal, but he managed to keep confusing me.. But now he
confirms his fall with this to Ja  "I concur 100%"

Jar said,  "he is facing the same direction all year long. If the observer
does not rotate with the axis, how can he see a star trail?"  The observer
would not actually be rotating, Yes moving around the sun, but not rotating..

And this is very incomplete, and thus lacking in accuracy, and is a

How can any observer maintain a fixed orientation and face the exact same
direction in space all year long? The only co-ordinate he can chose is a star,
and it is this star's status, stationary or moving, that is under question.
???? The closest to this would be to face vertically N.. And because the earths
motion is under question even this is not actually determinate.

Only if the world were static, or the stars were static and unmoving could
this orientation be achieved, and it is this continuous and unending problem of
indeterminate relative motions that is being debated, so far without success.

None of us with all the uncountable drawings plans explanations has come even
close to an acceptable understanding or concensus. Everything we try is
thwarted because of the need to assume some basic premise which is contestable.

So far I see no sound proof offered to Regner.  Not 5, not 1. Excepting
perhaps the revolutionary hypothesis on the aether, not acceptable to MS or
Regner. My rational expectations is that GWW and Roberts input will be
dispensed with a very short and concise rebuttal as being inconclusive.

Philip.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:40 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Dual Axis Proof

J A
I concur 100%.
Now what would you see if you repeated the experiment but with the Earth's
axis magically made orthogonal to the plane of revolution -- the ecliptic
plane? (The axis is now pointing at the (north or south) ecliptic pole).
Paul D

----- Original Message ----
From: j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, 3 November, 2007 4:32:16 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Dual Axis Proof

I want to take one more stab at our Proof. From the AC position, If we could
magically stop the planet in it's path around the sun but still rotating daily,
we could still observe the nightly star trails, because the observer is
rotating with the axis. If we could magically stop the daily rotation but not
the yearly, what would we see? The observer would not actually be rotating, Yes
moving around the sun, but not rotating. Now reduce the baseline to zero and
what is the observer doing? It's the same whether the baseline is zero or 1au,
he is facing the same direction all year long. If the observer does not rotate
with the axis, how can he see a star trail?

Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:     To prove it take a camera
and spin it at 23.44 degrees subtended to the perpendicular. now spin the
camera 365 times on the 23.44 degree axis for every one time that the whole
apparatus is rotated 360 degrees .........this will adequately demonstrate the
effect and since the observers scale (observers distance from axis of rotation)
makes no difference and we would be using actual stars at actual distances
there can be no protest of scale......

All is well in the house of the Geocentric
Universe.............ahhhhhhhhh......:)

Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Not to dispare..you see it does not matter ..why? ..because the nightly moves
through 360 degress 365 times for ever 1 anual rotation so the observer is at
some point all through out the 365 nights is going to be in rotaion about the
anual axis in all 360 degreess ......there will be a star trail but only on the
nightly axis everything as stated previously still applies.. and it would all
be a big blur.....but we already have that photo available to us.....it is not
blured at all by stars tracing out multiple paths simoltaniously...

j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:     Everybody,

I see a potential problem we need to consider in developing the dual axis
proof, which potentially could render it unusable. From an A-centric position,
basically it is this: On the nightly star trail the observer is moving along
the axis of rotation, therefore the view of the axis doesn't change. On the
annual star trail the observer is moving along a path that is 23.5 degrees off
of the axis of rotation. This means that the observers view of the axis is
changing by the same amount that a particular star moves around that axis,
therefore negating the motion, making it appear to be motionless.

Now if this is true, then to test whether the annual star trail exists, the
observer would have to travel north or south by a certain number of degrees for
each successive observation such that his path remains on the axis of rotation
in question. The problem here is that if we did this we would be reversing the
problem and should expect to see an annual trail even if Geo-centrism were the
truth because we would be observing based on a created axis.

Any axis we create will show what we should expect it to whether AC or GC is
the actual truth.

What does everyone think? I'm depressed.

JA

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